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quality players..gone
ER92
Posts: 18
Joined: 19 July 2010
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Jul 26, 2010 23:32
quality players..gone Billy Sharp - Doncaster - 1.1M
Gary Hooper - Celtic - £2.4M
Darren Ambrose - New 3 year deal at Palace
Basically...to keep this short, Billy Sharp was linked with leeds constantly for around 3 weeks.. as it looks, we lost out to Doncaster for an acceptable 1.1m. I don't think the guy is class, but at least he has goals in that division, how on earth did we miss out?
Secondly...Gary Hooper, fair enough, Celtic are certainly a team to compete with, unlike Donny (or so we'd think) But yet i would still like to think after such good year in terms of potential increased income, that we could have offered 2.5m on the table to scunny over a month ago, and the guy would be ours!....I rate this player and he has certainly put us to the sword in the past.
Darren Ambrose... quality player, scores from anywhere and gets round the park well. Shame we never made a bid by the sounds of it? Palace didn't have a clue where they were a month ago, and yet we didn't capitalise on what could have been a bargain buy for around 1.5m?....he would have been the answer to our midfield bite.
On top of that i have previously mentioned players like Paul Scharner and Jason Koumas are both available on free's and still don't have a club? ...If we had showed ambition and Ken had given SG 5 million to spend?? i'm sure we could have signed the quality of players our club should be capable of attracting, instead of the average one's so far.
we all have opinions but i believe that the 5 players i've mentioned would have a great chance of getting in many a championship side and we may have missed out 
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g.007
Posts: 84
Joined: 03 June 2010
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Jul 27, 2010 00:34
Yes - I must admit I too feel we have allowed things to drag on without making a push .
Fair enough , if we don't have the cash , we can't spend - but first we have to declare an interest in a player and show some intent - I don't know whether thats the case ?
The first three you mention would all cost - SG I presume along with the chairman would agree a valuation of a player - then make an initial bid less than that , then negotiate from then on and compromise - we may have to pay more , we may get a player for less ,
but at least we have shown an interest .
The other two Scharner and Koumas I do believe are both out of contract ?
I also agree that both would be serious acquisitions to our team - they are also free agents and there would be no transfer fee ?
Koumas didn't play much last season - does he have a long term injury ?
If not , I'm surprised no one has made a move for him - especially as Wigan have now signed Mcarthur aswell .
Definitely worth an enquiry - get off the boat Ken , get on the phone!
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Brown_lufc
Posts: 28
Joined: 23 March 2010
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Jul 27, 2010 09:16
Koumas is worth at least a trial surely!
Looks like grayson my be sticking with his 4-5-1 formation for the first game with johnson, howson, kilkenny in midfield.
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sheepy
Posts: 4241
Joined: 08 October 2008
Location: Leeds
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Jul 27, 2010 10:25
C'mon lads we all know that Hooper aint worth 2.4m and Billy Sharp is certainly nowhere near 1.1m, he hasnt done anything for a couple of seasons apart from living on the reputation he gained at Scunny.
Ambrose is a class player but we will never know if he actually wanted to leave Palace.
Grayson will only spend money on the right player and at the right price, so far he has brought in players who in my opinion are more than adequate for absolutely nothing. This is not a sign of lack of ambition, its just clever dealing.
The reason we are not in the Premiership is because we had a chairman and a manager who paid over the odds for players we didnt need. I don't see how it would be a good thing if we started doing that again.
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onenorthernsoul
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Jul 27, 2010 11:12
It's easy to use that as an argument Slappy, but now we have a chairman who won't spend over, under or around the odds to buy players we DO need 
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g.007
Posts: 84
Joined: 03 June 2010
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Jul 27, 2010 12:09
Missing the point Sheepy ?
Scharner and Koumas are both available - no fee involved ?
The same deals we've done for Connelly , Schmeichel , Paynter , Bassone
Its simply agreeing or negotiating their wages and length of contract .
OK , if you think the prices for Hooper and Sharp are over the odds , then thats your
opinion , but the fact is that in the current ' market place ' other teams have been
prepared to pay that amount - so who's right & who's wrong .
Have the two teams who have bought them - Celtic and Donny been ' mugged ' ?
I wonder what the valuations of the Leeds players would be in the current market ?
Do we have any player that would command a 2.4 mill transfer fee ?
Any that we would even ask a mill for ?
It would be an interesting topic to discuss don't you think - everyone to put a value on the first team squad - or , to keep it simple - say our three most valuable players .
I'm struggling to find a starting point ??? Help !
Remember we valued Beckford at 2.00/2.50 mill - no takers at that price/valuation ?
Newcastle offered 1.5m I believe - we wanted more - stalemate .
OK his contract was the issue there and potential buyers chose to sit and wait and got him for nothing - but what other players do we have on the books who could command
anything near 1.5m - none ?
Last edited by: g.007
- Jul 27, 2010 12:14.
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cadillacjukebox
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Location: Leeds
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Jul 27, 2010 12:32
sheepy
C'mon lads we all know that Hooper aint worth 2.4m and Billy Sharp is certainly nowhere near 1.1m
Two things I have learned in all my years, and these can be applied to this, and to anything else which commands a fee:
1. People will only pay for something if they believe it has an intrinsic value - right or wrong. Celtic believed that Hooper's worth that cash, or they wouldn't have spent it. It doesn't matter what our opinions are.
2. If there is a legally binding contract that has monetary value attached to it, you (as the buyer) must pay that as part of the compensation to the selling club. So Sharp and Hooper's existing contracts must have been worth £x times the number of weeks left on their contracts.
Strikes me that Hooper probably had the better weekly salary and longer time remaining on his contract.
In terms of players who could command fees greater than £1m at Leeds - I'd say maybe none, but if we have a good season, then our youngsters (especially in midfield) will be worth some cash (not that I want us to sell any of them).
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dangermouse
Posts: 6
Joined: 21 July 2010
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Jul 27, 2010 16:43
Have a look at Hoopers stats and I think it that £2m-£2.5m is a reasonable price. 2008 season he scored 30 goals from 54 games. Last season he scored 20 goals from 39 starts. Thats better than a goal every other game. Consider he is still only 22 and is likely to improve further and rise in value over the next few years. Signing a player like Hooper would not have been a return to Ridsdale era wastefulness, but an investment in a player who could help take us to the next level while increasing in value also.
Unfortunately players who command a fee appear to be beyond us. I'm not saying the free transfers are not good signings, but if we have any ambition to compete in this league we need to be in the market for players the likes of Hooper. Why a club of the standing of Leeds are unable to compete in the transfer market at any level asks serious questions of the chairman and the owners, whoever they are.
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Brown_lufc
Posts: 28
Joined: 23 March 2010
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Jul 27, 2010 18:14
dangermouse
Have a look at Hoopers stats and I think it that £2m-£2.5m is a reasonable price. 2008 season he scored 30 goals from 54 games. Last season he scored 20 goals from 39 starts. Thats better than a goal every other game. Consider he is still only 22 and is likely to improve further and rise in value over the next few years. Signing a player like Hooper would not have been a return to Ridsdale era wastefulness, but an investment in a player who could help take us to the next level while increasing in value also.
Unfortunately players who command a fee appear to be beyond us. I'm not saying the free transfers are not good signings, but if we have any ambition to compete in this league we need to be in the market for players the likes of Hooper. Why a club of the standing of Leeds are unable to compete in the transfer market at any level asks serious questions of the chairman and the owners, whoever they are.
Hmm i have mixed views on this i think in some ways your right in what your saying about hooper's price tag, and that it could infact rise due to his age (and if he continues to score goals) But I think we need to get behind grayson, its obvious that we wont be paying millions for a player at this moment in time, whether thats down to bates or not. I believe he's still waiting for either robinson, ankergren or kandol to leave before getting anyone else, frustrating I know, but thats how its going at the moment.
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Jarv
Posts: 425
Joined: 17 October 2008
Location: Cornwall
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Jul 27, 2010 20:21
dangermouse
Have a look at Hoopers stats and I think it that £2m-£2.5m is a reasonable price. 2008 season he scored 30 goals from 54 games. Last season he scored 20 goals from 39 starts. Thats better than a goal every other game. Consider he is still only 22 and is likely to improve further and rise in value over the next few years. Signing a player like Hooper would not have been a return to Ridsdale era wastefulness, but an investment in a player who could help take us to the next level while increasing in value also.
Unfortunately players who command a fee appear to be beyond us. I'm not saying the free transfers are not good signings, but if we have any ambition to compete in this league we need to be in the market for players the likes of Hooper. Why a club of the standing of Leeds are unable to compete in the transfer market at any level asks serious questions of the chairman and the owners, whoever they are.
Thing is though hardly anyone seems to be spending money this transfer window. I don't know the exact figures, but Boro seem the only team to have invested heavily so far. Good players are available for free. Bit frustrating though innit?
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sheepy
Posts: 4241
Joined: 08 October 2008
Location: Leeds
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Jul 27, 2010 20:46
g.007
Missing the point Sheepy ?
Well no because I wasnt commenting on that point, I was picking up on the transfer fees of Hooper and Sharp, sorry if I made my post a tad confusing, the point about Koumas was fair enough but I didnt have anything to say about that
I was just highlighting that quite a few fans are wanting us to spend money and im simply trying to say we dont have to in order to pick up decent players.
I know quite a few people will disagree when I say Hooper aint worth 2.4m and Sharp aint worth 1.1m but I don't think I am being harsh really. Billy Sharp has only scored 23 goals since he left Scunthorpe in 2007, I don't think those stats command a valuation of over 1 million pounds.
Hooper on the other hand has had two brilliant seasons for Scunthorpe but I still think 2.4m is a hefty price to pay, I'm happy the club is cautious about spending such a massive amount of money.
After all whats harder, joining in a bidding war for a player who has obvious worth or taking time to find an unknown player who will cost either little or nothing and then become a massive assett for the club?
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g.007
Posts: 84
Joined: 03 June 2010
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Jul 28, 2010 00:08
Ok sheepy - thanks for that
But, I must admit I agree with Dangermouse - Hooper is young , hungry for success , has had two good seasons at Scunny where his goals have kept them in the division , he's scored plenty playing for an ' average ' team .
Playing with better quality players will bring out the best in him - I'm sure he will be a success at Celtic and I think his valuation and fee are about right.
As the mouse says - these are the quality we should be getting involved with , players that will IMPROVE our team and take the club forward - not just additional ' cover ' players .
I know I'm being repetitive but in a couple of weeks Grayson has to know how he is going to play , what formation , which players fit into that formation and basically what he thinks is his best starting eleven - still we need the three players , goalscorer with pace , creative midfielder , centre back .
Koumas and Scharner would do for me , cost nothing , leaving us just a striker to buy -
I think us Leeds fans have plenty of hope for this coming season , many of us are even crazy enough to think we can get involved in the top six - but only if we get top six quality.
The window of opportunity is open - lets not let it shut behind us without doing a bit of business and give the fans someone to excite us and get us up out of our seats.
Last edited by: g.007
- Jul 28, 2010 00:27.
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simon
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Jul 28, 2010 01:57
I think at this stage of Leeds united's revival, £2.4 million is way too much money for a player such as Hooper. He is unproven at championship level (or in Celtic's case the SPL) and is a huge gamble. I for one am glad we are not taking such chances. We have a few positions we need filling, and 2.4 million could be spent in a much wiser way.
That said, we are finally back in the Championship and it is about time Grayson was allowed to start spending some decent money on some quality players who are good enough to make reaching the play offs places realistic target, in the hope of achieving a back to back promotion.
I mean whats the point settling on championship football for the next few seasons when we could spend money wisely and get back to the league where we belong!?
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onenorthernsoul
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Jul 28, 2010 08:43
Personally I don't think Hooper is worth £2.4 million but if he scores the goals which help Celtic do well in the Chumps League then it will be money well spent in their opinions. Not sure why posters are disagreeing about it, he's gone to a bigger club who are in Europe and who have a lot more money (available at least) than Leeds. If a player isn't a Leeds fan then why all the surprise that he's gone elsewhere, Celtic is a big chance for most players? Good luck to him, would have liked him here but that price is a lot of money for this division plus it might well have affected his confidence, we'll never know.
Would love to see Koumas here, and Scharmer (scuse the spelling if it's wrong) but I doubt we're even on their radars. Would be nice to be wrong of course! I think Koumas can be trouble if he doesn't get his own way, and I reckon he will be asking for big wages too, which is fine unless it disrupts the pay structure already in place at a club. I think there is danger that any Prem player dropping down could do exactly that.
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