Johnny Howson is leaving Leeds

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Official offer accepted

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Socrates Posts: 89 Joined: 13 April 2011	Jan 18, 2012 12:19 Good luck to Howson - he deserves better. I await the KB interview...lets see if the presenter actually asks him some proper questions. Its all over. Championship this year - League One next year.

mintyshoe Posts: 55 Joined: 03 January 2012	Jan 18, 2012 12:20 birkybullufc All the players leaving over the last 2 seasons is a reflection that the players no longer believe their ambitions are matched by the board. Selling Howson now for 2 million may be better business than letting him leave for free next season and keeping an unhappy player. It shouldn't have come to this though. The board are not learning from their mistakes as the same thing is being repeated over and over. Gary Kelly stayed with us before because we were doing well. If he was 23/24 now in this team and he had offers from the premier league do you think he would stay around? Really? Loyalty to a football club only stretches so far for a player with a short career span. Ambition and money have to be their focus. Only Becchio and Snodgrass left from the best front 6(said by numerous opposition managers) in the championship last season. Will they still be here in february? Spot on. Biggest indication possible the club is not progressing towards PL football is our club captain leaving to further his career elsewhere. Absolutely no hard feelings towards the lad; as stated his career is a short one so you cant blame him for making the most of it, unfortunately he doesn't feel that's possible here any more. I'm sure he'll do well. 10 days to turn the club around, generate some new impetus and get the momentum moving in the right direction. Change of manager not a viable option in that time-frame.

sheepy Posts: 10537 Joined: 08 October 2008 Location: Rothwell	Jan 18, 2012 12:22 dlw10 People need to start understanding that Leeds United is a business as well as a football club. If Howson wants Premier League football now he can only get it by going to a Premier League club. If he refuses to sign a new contract we have no choice but to take the money - or have an unhappy player on the staff and then get bugger all in the Summer. I know most of the folk on here hate Bates and want him out, but I do think some are now ignoring the economics and will blame Bates for anything they dont like going on at tghe club and give him no credit for anything positive. Howson has been poor this season compared to previous years, he's either lost his mojo or he aint any good any more, take the money. Move on. I agree in principle to this, well the theory, but in a nutshell we will never get anywhere if we continue to sell our best players, surely there has to be a line drawn between ambition and operating the club on an even financial keel. This is Leeds United, its not a corner shop with an owner reluctant to upgrade to a supermarket. At some point the manager or owner has to say, however tempting this offer is, we MUST offer this player an incentive to stay and help us get back to the top flight. If the player takes the piss then fair enough, take whats on the table but none of us get the impression that Jonny was making unreasonably demands. Will probably never know the truth but from what I have read in the programme and such, negotiations over his contract broke down from the first meeting. Its like the club has no flexibility to keep the players who are capable of getting the club up a division. Don Revie make a stand to keep Billy Bremner, he did not roll over and let him go. Thats the sort of attitude and spirit we need.

Barney Posts: 514 Joined: 25 April 2011 Location: Dublin	Jan 18, 2012 12:22 dlw10 Wigan White Has Howson (when fit) had a good season? Before his injury quite a few people were calling for him to be dropped from the team. £2m now, or £0 at the end of the season? £2m now of course. The new contract for Jonny has been on offer for about 4 months and it doesn't look like it would ever have been signed. (Remember Johnson and Kilkenny) Saying this I'll be sad to see him go, but I don't think he's the shining light some think he is. (Be more concerned if Snoddy left). Lets hope the money is put to good use for a change with the PERMANENT SIGNING of some quality footballers, and not some new chairs for the executive boxes. I've never really been an advocate of the "Bates Out Brigade" as I don't have a problem with running the club as a tight ship (Look at Darlington) and we know how close we were to being in the same boat a few years ago. However my opinion is changing. We are now operating successfully in a financial way, but the financial restraints need to be loosend for us to get back were we belong. I absolutely agree with everything you say here. People need to start understanding that Leeds United is a business as well as a football club. If Howson wants Premier League football now he can only get it by going to a Premier League club. If he refuses to sign a new contract we have no choice but to take the money - or have an unhappy player on the staff and then get bugger all in the Summer. I know most of the folk on here hate Bates and want him out, but I do think some are now ignoring the economics and will blame Bates for anything they dont like going on at tghe club and give him no credit for anything positive. Howson has been poor this season compared to previous years, he's either lost his mojo or he aint any good any more, take the money. Move on. I also do not believe Howson will cut it in the Premiership and will soon be disillusioned playing in the reserves. Johnson is now struggling to keep a place at Norwich and Howson will go the same way. Beckford thought the Premiership was the place for him, now he's a Championship player again. Gradel thought top french football was the place to be , now he's unhappy. Kilkenny thought he was worth a mint and ended up at Bristol City. The grass always looks greener on the other side until they have to play on it. I would be more worried if we were trying to keep players who want to leave than if we cash in on players sensibly. I havent actually heard anyone say what could be done to keep Howson now either? I have to say,these sorts of posts infuriate me almost as much as how the club is being run. Thankfully you lads are in the minority in your "looking on the brightside" points of view. Howson was an excellent player for Leeds with the potential to be a great player for years to come. He has all the attributes to make it to the very top of the game and he was Leeds mad. We allowed him to get to January without having signed a contract,just as we did with beckford,Johnson,Kilkenny (with gradel and scmeichel it was similar. How the hell is that good "business"???? It's used as an excuse to accept offers for our players that they dont have long left on their contracts. Are all these players who have failed to sign new contracts greedy? No,it's the fault of the guys running our club who are idiots. We are a shambles. I think most fans now recognise this and this "but bates saved us from extinction" crap is being seen through. Last edited by: Barney - Jan 18, 2012 12:31.

bogdan Posts: 9991 Joined: 08 October 2008	Jan 18, 2012 12:24 Finances and ability don't come into play here. As Lee says, it comes down to, a young local lad, captain, the only person in this squad that you could build an image of a symbol of the club on in the future, has not been convinced his place is here. Here being the club that is supposedly building for sustained life in the Premier League with an immediate ambition to get there. It's nothing short of a disgrace.

mintyshoe Posts: 55 Joined: 03 January 2012	Jan 18, 2012 12:24 Sheepy's nailed it there too ^^^

tedacko Posts: 5 Joined: 24 March 2010	Jan 18, 2012 12:28 I am completely dismayed. This is telling the rest of the football world we've given up on promotion this season. We held on to Beckford a couple of years ago in the knowledge that the couple of million or so we'd get for him was outweighed by the benefits of keeping him (we believed we'd be promoted, even though we knew he'd still leave). In this instance, I have no doubt that Jonny would stay if we got promoted. But we're clearly giving up on that. Let's face it, we should have gone up last season before Grayson/Bates decided that our top-scorer was best replaced by Billy Paynter for the final push. It's a massive "come and get them" invitation for the likes of Clayton, Becchio, Snodgrass and McCormack.

RamseyWhite LUFCTALK MODERATOR Posts: 4258 Joined: 08 December 2008 Location: Ramsey, Cambridgeshire	Jan 18, 2012 12:29 Barney dlw10 Wigan White Has Howson (when fit) had a good season? Before his injury quite a few people were calling for him to be dropped from the team. £2m now, or £0 at the end of the season? £2m now of course. The new contract for Jonny has been on offer for about 4 months and it doesn't look like it would ever have been signed. (Remember Johnson and Kilkenny) Saying this I'll be sad to see him go, but I don't think he's the shining light some think he is. (Be more concerned if Snoddy left). Lets hope the money is put to good use for a change with the PERMANENT SIGNING of some quality footballers, and not some new chairs for the executive boxes. I've never really been an advocate of the "Bates Out Brigade" as I don't have a problem with running the club as a tight ship (Look at Darlington) and we know how close we were to being in the same boat a few years ago. However my opinion is changing. We are now operating successfully in a financial way, but the financial restraints need to be loosend for us to get back were we belong. I absolutely agree with everything you say here. People need to start understanding that Leeds United is a business as well as a football club. If Howson wants Premier League football now he can only get it by going to a Premier League club. If he refuses to sign a new contract we have no choice but to take the money - or have an unhappy player on the staff and then get bugger all in the Summer. I know most of the folk on here hate Bates and want him out, but I do think some are now ignoring the economics and will blame Bates for anything they dont like going on at tghe club and give him no credit for anything positive. Howson has been poor this season compared to previous years, he's either lost his mojo or he aint any good any more, take the money. Move on. I also do not believe Howson will cut it in the Premiership and will soon be disillusioned playing in the reserves. Johnson is now struggling to keep a place at Norwich and Howson will go the same way. Beckford thought the Premiership was the place for him, now he's a Championship player again. Gradel thought top french football was the place to be , now he's unhappy. Kilkenny thought he was worth a mint and ended up at Bristol City. The grass always looks greener on the other side until they have to play on it. I would be more worried if we were trying to keep players who want to leave than if we cash in on players sensibly. I havent actually heard anyone say what could be done to keep Howson now either? I have to say,these sorts of posts infuriate me almost as much as how the club is being run. Thankfully you lads are in the minority in your "looking on the brightside" points of view. Howson was an excellent player for Leeds with the potential to be a great player for years to come. He has all the attributes to make it to the very top of the game and he was Leeds mad. We allowed him to get to January without having signed a contract,just as we did with beckford,gradel,Johnson,Kilkenny. How is that good "business"???? It's used as an excuse to accept offers for our players. Are all these players who have failed to sign new contracts greedy? We are a shambles. I think most fans now recognise this. Well said

onenorthernsoul LUFCTALK Sponsor Posts: 3185 Joined: 19 December 2008 Location: KEEP FIGHTING!	Jan 18, 2012 12:35 Yep, I agree with most of that Barney. Doesn't matter whether we disagree or not on the qualities of Howson, point is I see it as a LOSS to the team and club. It's not as upsetting as when Sheridan was sold tbh, but it's not far off. Howson has great potential, he's not a great player yet imho but I think he could well become one. Bogdan's comment about Don Revie threatening to walk out if the board sold Bremner is a brilliant one. TROUBLE is, unless Grayson actually wants rid of the player he made captain, I think Bates and Harvey would welcome him resigning. The word is that they can't afford to sack him anyway! Not sure about Bates being interviewed, he's on holiday in South Africa until, yes you guessed it, February.

RamseyWhite LUFCTALK MODERATOR Posts: 4258 Joined: 08 December 2008 Location: Ramsey, Cambridgeshire	Jan 18, 2012 12:37 bogdan Finances and ability don't come into play here. As Lee says, it comes down to, a young local lad, captain, the only person in this squad that you could build an image of a symbol of the club on in the future, has not been convinced his place is here. Here being the club that is supposedly building for sustained life in the Premier League with an immediate ambition to get there. It's nothing short of a disgrace. That’s right & agents are often tarnished for their greed mentality but I would also surmise that they would not advise their clients to stay at a club which lack ambition.

Pecky10 Posts: 2774 Joined: 28 December 2011 Location: New shirt? No chance! Bought a whole new house last time!	Jan 18, 2012 12:38 Not read the whole thread so apologies if I'm repeating what others have said but only just seen this.... 1. Getting £2m for an injured player out of contract in 6 months IS good business. BUT 2. Allowing the Club Captain to get to a situation when he only had 6 months on his contract left is nothing short of a disgrace. That responsibility HAS to lie with Bates. 3. We would all accept this better if we knew it would be reinvested but other than some loans, freebies and peanuts, we've not invested for a long time. Grayson has been criticised for his signings (quite rightly in some cases) but when his budget is £3.50 rather than £3.5m, what the hell can he do? What's the point of a shiny East Stand in League 1? 4. The saddest part for me is that a Leeds lad (supposedly through and through Leeds blood) would opt to move to Norwich, not a big club in the great scheme of things, rather than fight to get his hometown club into the top flight. I don't know what message this gives to our other youngsters - and better players - but it smacks of lack of ambition to me. PS I'm a girl, I'm allowed to use

sheepy Posts: 10537 Joined: 08 October 2008 Location: Rothwell	Jan 18, 2012 12:39 To be fair to dlw, he is just willing to judge Bates with an open mind and look at it objectively. As much as I disagree with him and I can't see any positives from selling Howson and find Bates undefendable (if there is such a word) I have in the past myself been willing to give Bates a chance and try and see the positives from things. Personally I think enough is enough and Bates has disappointed me once too much and as much as Bates can't do that much with how the lads play and how they are motivated, he is certainly 100% responsible for keeping the best players at the club to give Grayson a fighting chance of achieving his goal of promotion. You simply can't constantly sell your best players without replacing them. There's no argument against that. One player you probably justify, but Howson is just another name in a long, growing list.

Neowhite Posts: 489 Joined: 17 October 2008 Location: The Earth	Jan 18, 2012 12:42 2M for an injured player we would have got nothing for in 6 months - logically it makes sense - but I can't help feeling let down and disappointed. I don't really know who to be disappointed at, Howson for not signing a contract extention and leaving (he's not left yet, he could sign his contract extention still, I could win the lotto, buy Leeds United and offer him good money), Grayson for just been sh*t in the transfer market, or Bates for been a cold ar$ehole who doesn't back Grayson in the market. I accept that there are good reasons to sell Howson, but what have we done to prevent them from occuring? Howson's not the first player, when will Bates learn? Either Bates is an idiot for letting another player get into a situation when they can leave the club, or he wanted to sell Howson. White only has 6 months left (I think), so I'd expect him to leave soon too. A 2M bid for Clayton from Bolton, he's going too - I know Bolton are getting relegated and he'll be in the same situation, but Leeds aren't getting promoted, he'll have half a season of premiership football, there is the outside chance they'll stay up, and next season Bolton will be more likely to get promoted than us. We might as well just sell everybody and get 22 loanees in every season until we get promoted in 2053. Maybe we could really splash out and get half a dozen frees too. Oh well, chin up, Bates is in his 80's, he can't live forever.

sheepy Posts: 10537 Joined: 08 October 2008 Location: Rothwell	Jan 18, 2012 12:44 Neowhite Oh well, chin up, Bates is in his 80's, he can't live forever. He will end up as a talking brain in a jar on Graysons desk. Last edited by: sheepy - Jan 18, 2012 12:45.

birkybullufc Posts: 1300 Joined: 31 May 2011	Jan 18, 2012 12:44 AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! The most frustrating thing in all this is that we most of us have seen it coming deep down. A lot of whats been said, has been said before when the likes of Gradel left. We may have tried to remain positive and keep the faith but subconciously we know things are on a downward spiral. The demise in atmosphere at ER this season reflects that reagardless of dwindling attendances. In any business you retain your best staff if you want to build a long term future. If you are just interested in milking the business then you keep costs low and have a high turn over of less adequate staff. In the long term the company suffers. By then the owners don't care because they've made their money and will move on. I've seen the same thing happening at my old place of work. That is the main reason I left. I'm much happier because of it. I'm sure Johnny must have been feeling much the same. If you see the writing on the wall it must be hard to stay motivated. Like Johnson, Kilkenny, Kasper and Gradel I wish him alll the best and hope he realises his potential.

RamseyWhite LUFCTALK MODERATOR Posts: 4258 Joined: 08 December 2008 Location: Ramsey, Cambridgeshire	Jan 18, 2012 12:47 onenorthernsoul Not sure about Bates being interviewed, he's on holiday in South Africa until, yes you guessed it, February. That says it all, probably the most important time in our season & the old goat is on holiday.

USA for Leeds Posts: 1274 Joined: 24 May 2011	Jan 18, 2012 12:50 Gutted. That's how I feel, that's how our team is. There. I said it. Last edited by: sheepy - Jan 18, 2012 12:54.

lebowski Posts: 20 Joined: 23 November 2011	Jan 18, 2012 12:53 Bates, Harvey : Asset strippers , plain and simple.

sheepy Posts: 10537 Joined: 08 October 2008 Location: Rothwell	Jan 18, 2012 12:53 gents, I understand emotions are high but please try and keep them on a level. I don't own a suit so I don't want to end up in court.

onenorthernsoul LUFCTALK Sponsor Posts: 3185 Joined: 19 December 2008 Location: KEEP FIGHTING!	Jan 18, 2012 12:57 What's all this codswallop about 'good business sense'? It's assuming that Howson would have left at the end of the season, that is not the case, if he was offered what he considered reasonable terms and the board were showing true ambition to get promoted then Howson would not be unhappy at the club. And 'good business sense' does not get the balance of spending all wrong, nor does it allow the overall boss to undermine the footballing side of the club or spend more money on ground improvements than on the most important part of a football club, its team and personnel. Sorry, but to say it's good business sense is nonsensical, I mean no disrespect to anyone thinking it but it just bewilders me how this transfer if it happens can mean anything but negative for the football team. Politely speaking, the balance is all wrong, not enough budgeted for wage negotiations and new players, too much on the East Stand. IMpolitely speaking, it's because we have scrotes running the club and taking too much out of it.

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