USA for Leeds
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Joined: 24 May 2011
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Mar 12, 2012 17:51
What did Warnock do differently? I've only seen two out of the last four matches, but the results can't be argued with: one goal conceded in four matches. The question I have is;
Why?
What has Neil Warnock done that Simon Grayson couldn't? Can anyone put their finger on it?
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cadillacjukebox
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Mar 12, 2012 18:52
I asked this question last week, but all the posh boys and Pecky (who go to the matches) declined to comment.
 
I asked whether he has said "defend or go and play with the under 12's" or has stopped zonal marking and given each man a job to do on a specific player, or whether he has their families locked away in a secret location!?
No one could be bothered to reply on the subject of our fave footie club and it's defensive tictacs last time, perhaps this small dig in the ribs will prompt an outpouring of explanations for those not fortunate enough to attend.
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isrodger
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Location: Norwich well everyone else has gone there!
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Mar 12, 2012 19:11
Not sure... But I suspect it is partly what he has told them not to do. Your primary roll as a fullback is defending, centre halves never mind playing football,,, block head a get a clearance in. Was noticeable how much football boro tried to play in there own third,,, and messed up. Brown your in the team to kick arse... The rest is a bonus. Maybe think we tried to play too much football which led to an inevitable f...k up!
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sheepy
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Mar 12, 2012 19:11
Its probably the fact that Warnock gives them some self belief and gets across how he wants them to defend in plain and easy to understand terms.
I liked Grayson, he did a great job but the defence was always dodgy, it seems Warnock can get us playing more solid defensively than Grayson could with more or less the same players.
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Pecky10
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Mar 12, 2012 19:28
cadillacjukebox
I asked this question last week, but all the posh boys and Pecky (who go to the matches) declined to comment.
Blimey, talk about being singled out...  And sorry if the question was asked before, I may have missed it or maybe hadn't seen enough to properly comment
I've only been to a handful of matches this season but obviously we've been on the box twice in recent weeks and I was at Pompey so.....
I think isrodger & Sheepy are both on the right lines; I think he's probably spent time with each individual and explained in basic terms what they each need to do, what the priorities are and how to work as a unit at the back.
The Southampton goal aside, which was shocking, they look more organised and I think they're communicating better; he's got Brown and Clayton working hard in midfield; their workrate on Sunday was immense; closing down and not letting Boro get comfortable on the ball - things that sides have been doing to us all season long.
When your defence starts in midfield the minute you've lost possession, it's easier for the back line to get organised and do their jobs, for me that's the key. We're (largely) not letting teams have as much space to run at us which means O'Dea and Lees can marshall the centre forwards more effectively because they're not being dragged out of position all the time chasing their arses.
I'm sure there'll be people that have a different view from me and it's a long time since I did my coaching badges, but I wouldn't be surprised if the lads had spent an awful lot of time doing defensive 6v6 drills in recent weeks.
Is that me off the hook now?
Last edited by: Pecky10
- Mar 12, 2012 19:31.
Reason: Typo
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isrodger
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Location: Norwich well everyone else has gone there!
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Mar 12, 2012 19:30
Your right sheepy it's no surprise to me how qpr are struggling ... May have better personnel now but warnock seems to get his players to give that extra 10%. I do think he allocates a role to each player and doesn't over complicate it. Funny charlton and hunter never were renowned for playing the ball out, but we now expect technically less gifted centre halves bring the ball out like beckenbaur ! Robinson will be intersting, evidently he went really down hill at Bolton, hiwever I suspect he will do a really good job for us ... Why? Because NW will ask him to play to his strengths recognising he's no Danni alves!
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johnh
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Mar 12, 2012 19:33
Under SG Huddersfield conceded two goals, at home, to bottom club Rochdale. Before that game Rochdale had only scored 12 goals in 18 away games. Is there a clue here? Maybe he has introduced the LU defensive tactics there!
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Pecky10
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Mar 12, 2012 19:52
isrodger
Because NW will ask him to play to his strengths recognising he's no Danni alves!
Exactly, NW mentioned Robinson in his post-match interview, said that Robbo's legs were getting a bit sore at half time so he told him that after 75-minutes he could have a rest and sit next to him on the bench
As it happens he played all 97 but the point I'm making is he's told Robinson to do a job at the back, nothing more.
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bogdan
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Mar 12, 2012 19:56
I'll tell you what's changed - we've stopped "identifying the issues" and we've stopped "going back" to that proverbial training ground after every game. I don't want to get on Grayson's back again, but in proportion to the scale of our defensive issues, his public response always sounded as if he was ready to give the players another hearty pat on the back and a "oh well, maybe next time". In comparison we have a guy who openly states his fetish for centre halves with blood on their face.
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cadillacjukebox
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Mar 12, 2012 20:12
Pecky10
Is that me off the hook now?
Abso-chuffing-lutely!
Thanks to all for the responses. What I have noticed is we have a team ethic, and any opposition player faces 2 or 3 Leeds players. Defend as an 11 person unit.
I have never seen Snoddy work so hard in my life by the way!
Cheers
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cadillacjukebox
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Mar 12, 2012 20:14
bogdan
I'll tell you what's changed - we've stopped "identifying the issues" and we've stopped "going back" to that proverbial training ground after every game. I don't want to get on Grayson's back again, but in proportion to the scale of our defensive issues, his public response always sounded as if he was ready to give the players another hearty pat on the back and a "oh well, maybe next time". In comparison we have a guy who openly states his fetish for centre halves with blood on their face.
Each player has a job to do at any point in time. We mark players not thin air and we have quickly developed a "guts for garters" attitude that is massively loved by the fans.
Warnock IN!
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Pecky10
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Mar 12, 2012 20:26
cadillacjukebox
Pecky10
Is that me off the hook now?
Abso-chuffing-lutely!
Thank god for that
Dunno how I got lumped in with the "posh boys" (seriously, there are posh boys on here??  ) for attending games though, it's a rare treat being in Brighton!
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isrodger
Posts: 1382
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Location: Norwich well everyone else has gone there!
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Mar 12, 2012 20:32
Another great example is Michael brown... Now I actually prophesied he would be a revelation under warnock, (gotto get one right).... I honestly can seeing him doing the Shaun Derry role for us. I can just hear warnock telling him not to bother trying to get in the oppositions last third, "as long as your there to leave your studs in their playmaker a couple of times you will do for me". Conversely, Didn't he threaten to fine players who passed to taubret (spelling) in there own half at qpr.
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cadillacjukebox
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Mar 12, 2012 20:32
Pecky10
Dunno how I got lumped in with the "posh boys" (seriously, there are posh boys on here?? ) for attending games though, it's a rare treat being in Brighton!
I live in Leeds, but am a rugby union, rooting, tooting shooting country posh boy, so am too busy to go to home games.
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USA for Leeds
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Mar 12, 2012 20:33
I haven't played football since I was young, but I spent 25 years playing lacrosse, which is known in England as "that game with the stick with the basket on top." Anyway, I spent those 25 years playing defense in that sport, and in various other sports to a much lesser degree, and I have learned that regardless of the sport defenders need to have an attitude that says "I'm going to stop that #$@!% ball from going in the @!#! net and I don't care what it takes!" I'm glad we now have a manager who realizes that, from a defender, that's what really counts.
cadillacjukebox
I asked this question last week, but all the posh boys and Pecky (who go to the matches) declined to comment.
LOL! With all these responses, I feel awfully special!
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cadillacjukebox
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Mar 12, 2012 20:41
isrodger
Another great example is Michael brown
Agreed. But what about O'Dea? He's like a man possessed! You'd have thought he was on loan from Rangers, not Celtic!
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leedssince96
Posts: 96
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Mar 12, 2012 20:54
I wasn't sure about O'Dea for a long time under Grayson, but he's been awesome in the two games I've seen under Warnock.
I was sad to see Grayson go and I didn't like it when we hired. But dam! They are doing everything I've been screaming for them to do for the past two years under Grayson. They close people down, they don't commit to making stupid tackles, don't are not backing off anymore and they are getting their blocks in. How has Warnock sorted them out so quickly?
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Barney
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Location: Dublin
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Mar 12, 2012 21:08
I remember Grayson early in the season, after we'd conceded a lot of goals saying that he had tried all the centre halves at the club in varying combinations and he was very frustrated that none of them seemed to be working...he then, as Bogdan said above stated that it was back to the training ground to work harder. In pre-season, after selling Kasper, he seemed to level a lot of our defensive frailties last season at his door. Ultimately,IMO, he never identified that the problem wasn't really with the keeper or the centre halves per se. The problem was with the system we were playing, the players in front of the centre halves, the tempo of the team and the pressing and work being done further out the pitch.
The most noteable change for me since NW has come in has been the tempo we now play with, both with the ball and without it. An exapmle of the improvement for me is in what we are now getting out of Becchio. Under Grayson in the last few months and for large parts of last season, the style of play seemed to be to pump the ball up to Becchio and HOPE a flick on breaks our way or something comes of it. Now, it seems that when we do play long balls up to Becchio, there are players running off him and looking for the flick ons. It seems a subtle change but it's made a massive difference. It's the same with Snodgrass. We used to seem to give him the ball,look at him and wait for him to do some magic. Now, it seems there is a tempo and movement from the players around Snodgrass and he's popping up in different positions making him far harder to mark and the movement of others is creating space for him.
Warnock is quite simply a more experienced and in all honestly, better manager than Grayson. Grayson had run out of ideas, Warnock has identified the problems and solved them.
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Spiderman
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Location: On the threshold of a dream
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Mar 12, 2012 21:12
Simon Grayson seems to think that it doesn't matter if the other team score two goals as long as you score three, this may work for a while at the start of the season but when your strikers eventually hit their barren spell that's when you're in trouble.
Simon made some good signings but he didn't know how to use them to the best of their ability.
About ten years ago I helped out a friend who had just taken over running a team of under 10's, they had the proverbial fat kid stood eating a packet of crisps whilst in goals (I made up the crisp eating bit, he used to wait until half time before he ate them) some of the kids could play a bit whilst others had no real idea.
after one dismal game which the kids had lost 6 - 1 I asked the fat keeper how he felt about letting in so many goals, he just shrugged his shoulders, I asked him how he got on with his team mates, he shrugged his shoulders again & said "they're ok" I spoke to Pete & told him about the conversation, he later had a chat with the kid & the rest of the team, he took the fat kid out of goals & put him in defence, the other kids started to talk more to him & he grew in confidence, he didn't have much technical ability but he made up for it with heart & spirit & gained the respect of his team.
I would like to say that this story has a happy ending with the kid signing professional terms with our beloved Leeds but the reality is that he played for about another year then decided he liked going fishing & eating crisps more than he liked football.
I know this has little to do with the change in our defence other than to say certain people can get players to sweat blood, others can't.
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cadillacjukebox
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Mar 12, 2012 21:17
Barney
Warnock is quite simply a more experienced and in all honestly, better manager than Grayson. Grayson had run out of ideas, Warnock has identified the problems and solved them.
Barney mate - top post. You have that spot on. In the end he's been there and got the tee shirt.
Small margins are the difference between also rans and winners.
+1
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