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Bigsocks
Posts: 319
Joined: 29 January 2012
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Apr 09, 2012 22:59
bogdan
Cymru White
I know this isn't the team of players he wants, but come on show some respect. Work with what you've got and motivate them, not beat them down.
What's the point in telling everyone you think they're the dog's doodars in public and them in the summer kicking them out the door? I've had enough pillow talk interviews from Grayson, and the players hardly showed any respect for him in his final months at the club.
You see most managers backing their players no matter what, no Arsenal player has ever done wrong if to believe Wenger.. Even Man City back the most hated footballer in the world?
NW does play a different style to what SG did, so if the team are doing worse under him, he should take some blame or even better come up with some "dog's doodars in public " because putting blame on the team and singling out players for mistakes while ducking any blame yourself, is no way team building morral, and will only cause ill feeling.
Again as i said before, i think he has done this to make it easier for the players to WANT to leave Leeds.
So maybe it might be smart mind game if he wants that to come true.
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bogdan
Posts: 9902
Joined: 08 October 2008
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Apr 09, 2012 23:08
Bigsocks
But that's not true, it won't ONLY cause ill feeling. As Sheepy points out, true characters will be motivated by this. It doesn't mean some won't crumble or just stop giving a damn, but that's the side-effect that helps you to weed out the people you don't want next to you when the going gets tough.
As I said, for the most part, public displays of affection was the only thing Grayson knew how to do in the public relation with his players, and that didn't prevent them from not being arsed for some important games. Hell, they were definitely in love with Redfearn and at Coventry a few of the players look inconvenienced by being made to get out of bed that day.
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18longleeds
Posts: 7687
Joined: 24 October 2008
Location: Bingley
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Apr 09, 2012 23:13
Say what you like about Grayson losing today but i can use the same thing about them not being Graysons players. If Bates had sacked Grayson before the January window id be all for it , but may as well have let him finish the season say what you like , but the facts are our league position improved every season under him, and nothings to say they would not have this season. The some one else can get the best out of the current players has failed and the results are worse under Warnock. I am however fully behind him and hope he gets to bring in the players he wants and we demolish the league next season , and i even think we might as Bates will not have to pay half the cash back to creditors as the 5 year period is up now.
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SiMamu
Posts: 2068
Joined: 27 March 2012
Location: South London
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Apr 09, 2012 23:16
It just seems like we need a bit of passion in the team and sheer determination to win. As well as a desire to represent the team and get promoted, not just to keep picking up your wages after putting in a mediocre performance. Clubs needs a total overhaul, not many worthy of staying tbh.
I agree Bates chose the wrong time to sack Grayson. If he was going to sack him he should've done it at the start of the window. Taht way Warnock would've had a window, and hell, maybe I'm pulling at loose strings but maybe Howson'd still be here. Our performances have been getting worse ever since he got injured, his role next to Clayton was very undervalued.
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bogdan
Posts: 9902
Joined: 08 October 2008
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Apr 09, 2012 23:23
18longleeds
Say what you like about Grayson losing today but i can use the same thing about them not being Graysons players.
Except you're not comparing like for like. Huddersfield had built a decent team at a level where they were well able to compete. Sacking Clarke was clearly not a bright decision, but equally Grayson has no doubt given assurances upon appointment that he can go one better and reel that elusive promotion in. If anything, Hudds should be more suited to what he was used playing here (than Leeds being suited to Warnock's philosophy).
18longleeds
Nothing except a couple of months of poor results and even poorer performances, 2 years of leaky defence that never got fixed, players backed with supreme confidence by Grayson who were either not even used or greatly disappointed, continuous signs that the dressing room atmosphere was only heading downwards.
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Bigsocks
Posts: 319
Joined: 29 January 2012
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Apr 09, 2012 23:29
bogdan
Bigsocks
But that's not true, it won't ONLY cause ill feeling. As Sheepy points out, true characters will be motivated by this. It doesn't mean some won't crumble or just stop giving a damn, but that's the side-effect that helps you to weed out the people you don't want next to you when the going gets tough.
As I said, for the most part, public displays of affection was the only thing Grayson knew how to do in the public relation with his players, and that didn't prevent them from not being arsed for some important games. Hell, they were definitely in love with Redfearn and at Coventry a few of the players look inconvenienced by being made to get out of bed that day.
I know you and i tend to show both sides of the coin
I do hear what your saying, but all the top managers just dont do that, so must be a reason why they dont. I cant think of any other manager who has pointed the finger of blame towards the players as freely as NW has.
I did not play pro football but the standerd was quite high with two of our players were being paid(all be it £25 per week) but i can honestly say even at that standerd if my manager moved me from right back to centre forward and after blasted me for playing awful without taking any blame for playing me like that, i would be far from happy, who wouldnt be?
Same with tactics, i was awful at heading the ball, so dont play me v a team playing the long ball with two 6"7 guys up front, or if you do, dont just blame me when i suck!
Team is a Team Manager and player MOT
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bogdan
Posts: 9902
Joined: 08 October 2008
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Apr 09, 2012 23:32
Bigsocks
I do hear what your saying, but all the top managers just dont do that, so must be a reason why they dont.
There is indeed: none of them has ever been tricked into managing a team as poor as this. 
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18longleeds
Posts: 7687
Joined: 24 October 2008
Location: Bingley
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Apr 09, 2012 23:37
3 points off the play offs with a lot weaker squad than last season with the games redfearn had coming up. He would have got the results , we would have beaten Brighton and Coventry which is essentially where the season ended. Does not matter how leaky your defence is in a 3-2 win. Id rather see that than the 0-0 , 0-2 we seen since Warnock took over , like i say does not matter now thats the past.
My mate who supports Huddersfield says the problem has been in midfield and Grayson is doing alright. If Grayson wins the play offs with them then thats a result and would be his 3rd promotion in his 8 year managerial career, must be doing something right.
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sheepy
Posts: 10401
Joined: 08 October 2008
Location: Rothwell
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Apr 09, 2012 23:42
At the end of the day we will be in the Championship next season and given our form and playing staff, thats a bit of a relief for me really.
Lets give Warnock a fair crack of the whip, give him the chance to compete for players in an open transfer market and not just scrape the barrel with whats been left AFTER the transfer window has shut.
Warnock will bring in his own players and those players will be psychologically tough enough to play for Leeds. We don't need players who need constantly cuddling and telling that they are special.
Cast your mind back to the Wilko era of the early 90's and the Revie era of the 70's and tell me how many of those groups were mentally weak and unable to self motivate themselves.
Grayson did ok, but he has left us with an average squad and thats why Warnock is here, its time for the club to wake up and step up. He can do it 
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bogdan
Posts: 9902
Joined: 08 October 2008
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Apr 09, 2012 23:42
18longleeds
3 points off the play offs with a lot weaker squad than last season with the games redfearn had coming up. He would have got the results , we would have beaten Brighton and Coventry which is essentially where the season ended. Does not matter how leaky your defence is in a 3-2 win. Id rather see that than the 0-0 , 0-2 we seen since Warnock took over , like i say does not matter now thats the past.
Easy to say that now, but no one can guarantee that. If it was all this accessible, how does one explain Derby, Barnsley and Birmingham? How do you know he wouldn't have lost at Bristol or against Doncaster? There's no "we would have", there's just "we didn't".
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18longleeds
Posts: 7687
Joined: 24 October 2008
Location: Bingley
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Apr 09, 2012 23:49
How do you know that we would not have won against Forest, Watford etc with Grayson in charge though , swings and round abouts. Every team has rough patches and squad is only average , because we cant compete with the likes of Bristol city on contracts. The sales of Gradel, kasper , Howson and not to mention Johnson , and shows how much Howson and Johnson have been missed this season , that it really went down hill when Howson got injured start of December. Been proved Grayson did not have the Necessary funds, the time he asked for a midfielder to replace Howson did he get it nope and he got sacked for finally speaking up.
Like i say i am behind Warnock and hope to see him get the players he wants.
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bogdan
Posts: 9902
Joined: 08 October 2008
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Apr 09, 2012 23:56
18longleeds
I am quite tired of hearing this mythological argument to be honest. Speaking up? He mumbled the word "funds" once in his entire stay, in the evening after Birmingham when his fate was already sealed, and had been for a long time probably. He got sacked because he was incapable of addressing long-standing issues and it was all becoming a bit more than he had the skill and experience to manage.
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18longleeds
Posts: 7687
Joined: 24 October 2008
Location: Bingley
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Apr 09, 2012 23:59
Can be all you like , but the fact is a Radio link on one of Bates interviews confirmed it, something along the lines of Simon wanted funds for another midfield player and we had enough in midfield, yet our Captain the centre midfielder had just been sold but Ok.
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bogdan
Posts: 9902
Joined: 08 October 2008
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Apr 10, 2012 00:02
18longleeds
Can be all you like , but the fact is a Radio link on one of Bates interviews confirmed it, something along the lines of Simon wanted funds for another midfield player and we had enough in midfield, yet our Captain the centre midfielder had just been sold but Ok.
But okay what? That doesn't confirm he was sacked for "speaking up".
And by the way, Bates spoke about that being a centre half first, then switched the story and spoke of a midfielder. God knows what it was, but my point was about the speaking up thing. He didn't speak up against anything and he wasn't sacked for that.
Last edited by: bogdan
- Apr 10, 2012 00:03.
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Pecky10
Posts: 2735
Joined: 28 December 2011
Location: New shirt? No chance! Bought a whole new house last time!
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Apr 10, 2012 00:08
Bigsocks
I did not play pro football but the standerd was quite high with two of our players were being paid(all be it £25 per week) but i can honestly say even at that standerd if my manager moved me from right back to centre forward and after blasted me for playing awful without taking any blame for playing me like that, i would be far from happy, who wouldnt be?
I don't know whether it says more about me or you (and no offence intended whatsoever) but when I signed for Brighton, playing in the second tier of the women's Premier League, I'd come from a side where I'd played right wing or centre forward all the time, returning around 20-30 goals a season.
I made my debut for Brighton at left back. My left foot is strictly for standing on (which is why my left knee is buggered) and I discussed this with the gaffer before we went out on the pitch. I was told in no uncertain terms what was expected of me and gave it my best shot; I had only just signed terms, I didn't want to be stuck in the reserves after all! I had a shocker, truly awful; defending and tackling is not my forte let alone on my wrong bloody foot.
At the end of the game I got singled out for letting them get in behind us time after time. I was pretty annoyed but my reaction was to knuckle down in training, put in even more effort and prove to them where my rightful position lay. It shouldn't matter where you think (or where you are) best played in, you either want the shirt or you don't. If you want it, you will do what it takes, if you don't give a toss then you'll faff around and blame the manager.
Who do you want in your team?
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18longleeds
Posts: 7687
Joined: 24 October 2008
Location: Bingley
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Apr 10, 2012 00:09
fair enough, still when your in you're dream job your hardly going to do anything to annoy your boss , which is why he kept quiet. It stinks the way they dragged it from September to the start of February just to save money.
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SiMamu
Posts: 2068
Joined: 27 March 2012
Location: South London
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Apr 10, 2012 00:19
Pecky10
Bigsocks
I did not play pro football but the standerd was quite high with two of our players were being paid(all be it £25 per week) but i can honestly say even at that standerd if my manager moved me from right back to centre forward and after blasted me for playing awful without taking any blame for playing me like that, i would be far from happy, who wouldnt be?
I don't know whether it says more about me or you (and no offence intended whatsoever) but when I signed for Brighton, playing in the second tier of the women's Premier League, I'd come from a side where I'd played right wing or centre forward all the time, returning around 20-30 goals a season.
I made my debut for Brighton at left back. My left foot is strictly for standing on (which is why my left knee is buggered) and I discussed this with the gaffer before we went out on the pitch. I was told in no uncertain terms what was expected of me and gave it my best shot; I had only just signed terms, I didn't want to be stuck in the reserves after all! I had a shocker, truly awful; defending and tackling is not my forte let alone on my wrong bloody foot.
At the end of the game I got singled out for letting them get in behind us time after time. I was pretty annoyed but my reaction was to knuckle down in training, put in even more effort and prove to them where my rightful position lay. It shouldn't matter where you think (or where you are) best played in, you either want the shirt or you don't. If you want it, you will do what it takes, if you don't give a toss then you'll faff around and blame the manager.
Who do you want in your team?
Are you still a professional women's footballer?
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Pecky10
Posts: 2735
Joined: 28 December 2011
Location: New shirt? No chance! Bought a whole new house last time!
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Apr 10, 2012 00:25
SiMamu
Are you still a professional women's footballer?
No, my knees are too shot 
Was a few years ago now to be fair 
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Bigsocks
Posts: 319
Joined: 29 January 2012
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Apr 10, 2012 00:48
Pecky10
Bigsocks
I did not play pro football but the standerd was quite high with two of our players were being paid(all be it £25 per week) but i can honestly say even at that standerd if my manager moved me from right back to centre forward and after blasted me for playing awful without taking any blame for playing me like that, i would be far from happy, who wouldnt be?
I don't know whether it says more about me or you (and no offence intended whatsoever) but when I signed for Brighton, playing in the second tier of the women's Premier League, I'd come from a side where I'd played right wing or centre forward all the time, returning around 20-30 goals a season.
I made my debut for Brighton at left back. My left foot is strictly for standing on (which is why my left knee is buggered) and I discussed this with the gaffer before we went out on the pitch. I was told in no uncertain terms what was expected of me and gave it my best shot; I had only just signed terms, I didn't want to be stuck in the reserves after all! I had a shocker, truly awful; defending and tackling is not my forte let alone on my wrong bloody foot.
At the end of the game I got singled out for letting them get in behind us time after time. I was pretty annoyed but my reaction was to knuckle down in training, put in even more effort and prove to them where my rightful position lay. It shouldn't matter where you think (or where you are) best played in, you either want the shirt or you don't. If you want it, you will do what it takes, if you don't give a toss then you'll faff around and blame the manager.
Who do you want in your team?
Also no offence intended towards you. Because i like to think i gave 100% every game and in training, i loved playing football with a passion and all my Leeds hero's are players who gave 100% with their heart on their sleeve! And my skill level wasnt so good i could give 90% and make the team regularly.
I could not turn around and knucle down and put even more effot in because i gave 100% already. So for a manager to shot me down for playing on the left because HE wanted me too, should take some/most of the blame.
We all have bad games and we all know when we do, i see no point in public shooting down your players as a away to boost them up.. I agree horses for courses and some might respond well, but NW has been too gun ho in my view.
Its like you spoke to your gaffer(male or female), so you did your best by the team, it was their choice to force you or not, you couldnt do more by the sounds of it.
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Bigsocks
Posts: 319
Joined: 29 January 2012
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Apr 10, 2012 00:53
Pecky10
SiMamu
Are you still a professional women's footballer?
No, my knees are too shot
Was a few years ago now to be fair
Did you play 5 aside? Or on any hard ground? Because so many of us had knee troubles ending our football. I believe was playing/training on hard grounds.. just a thought
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