Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

[Deleted User 2747]

It's Cameron, btw.

You must be reading anti-Labour press, Frankie. Do like me, don't read ANY political comment in the press

I a pretty sure it is ..moron!

Well most of it is anti-Labour pro-right isn't it.

[Deleted User 728]

[Mellor]

Would be good if this thread could be retitled as BREXIT - what next or some such to encourage a bit of debate. As a Remain voter I'm still feeling sick in the stomach. Presumably 'leave' voters are feeling pretty chipper. Would be great to know.

Was it BB who drew attention to the 'tone' of the debate earlier in the thread? I agree entirely with his sentiment. I browsed another Lufc site (not waccoe, never go there) where abuse and expletives were being hurled around.

Just when you think it can't get any worse Laura K from the BBC appears to pursue her long standing pursuit of Corbyn. She doesn't do 'balance'.

[White Knight]

Would be good if this thread could be retitled as BREXIT

I don't about that, maybe it's still not an absolute certainty that Article 50 will be invoked. No one is rushing to pull the trigger. Or is that just wishful thinking....

[johnh]

I agree with Mellor that debate on this site has, in the main, been sensible. The best site I have been on for the Brexit discussion is the Everton website 'Toffeetalk'. The site was fortunate to have a fan from Belgium who works in the EU and provided some very useful information on how the EU worked.
There was a lot of disagreement but everyone was very sensible in how they put their case. There are also fans from around the world, particularly America and this provided some interesting, independent views.
Their poll was 20 out 15 remain.

[daib0]

You couldn't have made this up just 10 days ago ...




http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36639770

Gibraltar in talks with Scotland to stay in EU

Gibraltar is in talks with Scotland about a plan to keep parts of the UK in the EU, BBC Newsnight has learned.

Fabian Picardo, the territory's chief minister, told the BBC he was speaking to Scotland's First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, about various options.

One possibility under discussion is for Gibraltar and Scotland, which both voted to remain in the EU, to maintain the UK's membership of the bloc.

Nicola Sturgeon has confirmed that talks are under way with Gibraltar.

Northern Ireland could also potentially be included in the discussions.

[daib0]

Evening Standard


‘It’s not over yet’: Top legal expert says Brexit vote has ‘no force whatsoever’

The Brexit vote has “no force whatsoever” and MPs must pass a new bill to leave the European Union, a leading constitutional lawyer has said. Geoffrey Robertson QC insisted the matter was “not over yet” despite the public backing Brexit in Thursday’s historic referendum. He said the outcome of the referendum was merely advisory and new legislation would be required to quit the union.

Mr Robertson, who founded the Doughty Street Chambers, told the Independent: “It's the right of MPs alone to make or break laws, and the peers to block them. So there's no force whatsoever in the referendum result. It's entirely for MPs to decide.”

The country voted by a narrow 52 per cent to 48 per cent majority to quit the bloc on Thursday, with the Leave campaign winning 17.4 million votes to 16.1 million for Remain. But Mr Robertson said MPs must now pass a new bill in the Commons to repeal the 1972 European Communities Act, which took the UK into the union. They would have to do so after a majority of them supported Remain. And he insisted MPs are “bound” to vote against the bill if they think doing so is in the nation's interests, despite the Leave vote.

“MPs are entitled to vote against it and are bound to vote against it, if they think it's in Britain's best interest [to vote that way]. It's not over yet,” he said. “MPs will have to do their duty to vote according to conscience and vote for what's best for Britain. It's a matter for their consciences. They have got to behave courageously and conscientiously.” He added: “Democracy in Britain doesn't mean majority rule... it's the representatives of the people, not the people themselves, who vote for them."

His comments come after David Lammy, Labour's MP for Tottenham, called on MPs to block Brexit. Other constitutional experts have echoed his comments, with Charles Flint QC writing in a letter to the Times that an act of Parliament is needed to leave the EU.

[johnh]

Yep, sounds like EU 'democracy' to me.

[Deleted User 3289]

I personally don't have a problem with another Scottish referendum or a Northern Ireland one. If the people of those respected country's no longer want to be part of Great Britain then so be it. If those countries want to negotiate the own entries fees back into Europe then that's upto them. The voters in England and Wales have made the decision to leave the politicians should stop bickering and get on with the job in hand.

[Mellor]

If we're going for this 'out' thing I'd like to see a proper overhaul of the entire system. Devolved powers to Scottish, Welsh, NI (Gib?) and the regions (say north, mids, south) - is that what's called a federal system (I don't want to lose the Queen mindst - eat away at the uniqueness of the U.K and tourism will also decline) where Westminster picks up purely national issues like defence. Unless power moves closer to the people who voted out because their communities continue to be destroyed by the Westminster elite what's the point of BREXIT.

And you can't be paying for prescriptions, university fees, 'care' in Carlisle and not across the Solway Firth in Scotland. This is the kind of stuff that matters to folk for me. Closing the border, whatever that means, might look good but it won't really improve 'lives'.

Appointing Oliver Letwin, Eton, Cambridge & earlier form for racist comments really doesn't look a good start.

It also strikes me that the Welsh assembly has less devolved powers than Scotland & a leader who seems more Les Dawson parody than Statesman/woman. Result, the Welsh still feel neglected whereas the Scots ....

If we're changing let's change not fiddle about. Sturgeon also could stand for the top job as well and parliament could move out of London. Sometimes 'visible' change matters.

Probably nonsense but the worst case is BREXIT makes things worse or changes little in the lives of the traditional working class. If immigrants are good/never the problem, stopping them won't improve lives. Danger is that what (wrongly IMO) is seen as a 'facilitator' for improvement becomes the improvement and when done (immigration massively reduced) its business as usual/same old same old. There will of course be a hugely increased Whitehall bureaucracy handling all the point scores and the trade deals which are currently handled with the EU.

Disenfranchised people in broken communities, some neglected for decades, is the problem for me. Hope must have something behind it or it very quickly disappears.