Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

[Mellor]

We can only wait LAsc, I realise that, but to date I haven't heard or seen anything to suggest that waiting will bring any benefits. How can it? The whole BREXIT campaign was built on a lie wasn't it, that we can have our cake and eat it as well; that the fifth (now 6th) biggest economy in the world should show how strong we are by copying smaller ones like Norway or Switzerland.

At what point will the folk in the northern de industrialised zones start to see the benefit of BREXIT I wonder? I don't see project fear anywhere, I just see economic indicators taking a turn for the worse and the lack of any real plan.

It's early days of course but watching May and her cabinet feels like 'meet the new boss, same as the old boss' and why wouldn't it? Some are the same, some were previously discredited, some appear to show no real grasp of the issues, many have/have had tax issues, all voted in favour of welfare cuts/bedroom tax, all were happy to see the uk move to a zero hours world where our children can expect to earn less than their parents and to work until they drop etc.

Where are we heading?

[Davycc]

[quote}Watching the news just now, even the traffic jams on route to Dover are being blamed on Brexit. Nothing to do with the staff shortages in France and the heightened security checks following the Nice attacks. All this negative sensationalist media, no wonder when it thundered heavy the other night, I overheard someone blame that on Brexit. I don't follow it as closely as some but we may have got some trade deals with India, Australia, New Zealand, The far East in the offing, that's something positive.

Project fear is becoming exactly that. Its almost a shame that George Osborne is not around to implement his punishment Budget.

"The chancellor raised the stakes in the EU referendum debate as he said a vote to leave would require an emergency budget involving tax rises and spending cuts".

If that dos'nt amount to Blackmail....

Power to the People[/quote]

That was always going to happen, if we had've voted to remain then it would have been blamed on that as well. The outcome of the vote didn't go the way I would have liked. For myself, job, kids and for the bigger picture I think it better if we stayed in BUT we're not. I don't think we are at all well set up to cope with the challenge but I doubt if we would be in any better position with Labour with the mess they are in. I'm sorry, I look at Corbyn and see a man who "appears" to take no pride in anything and that counts with me.

Power to the people ? We the people have the power we vote AND we voted out!

[Deleted User 3289]

Where are we heading?

I'm no prophet but I don't think it will be a Green and Pleasant Land, what with technology advancing at a rate of knots, food banks growing all the time, a possible lost generation of disenfranchised youth with limited prospects, and the wealth gap that seems to grow wider every year. Brexit or no Brexit its looking bleak.

Power to the people ? We the people have the power we vote AND we voted out!

And if things don't improve in the next 4 years we will have the chance to use that power again. Will it make a difference to the bigger picture? I doubt it.

[Mellor]

Unless I move house at some point in the next 4 years I'll have the power to cast yet another meaningless vote. This time I'll have the added bonus of wasting my vote on a candidate who not only has no chance of getting elected but even if he/she did has no chance of unBREXITing us if the economic signs we're seeing continue on their southerly journey and the 'battle bus promises' turn out to be the lies many believe them to be.

For now, the lies continue - May (I don't know what kind of vicar her dad was but he certainly fell down on the job when getting the commandments across to his daughter) has already gone back on her promise to impose border controls between Ireland and NI. That's an issue which won't go away that easily I expect! Nor should it cos it's huge (it seems to me).

As each day goes by, as May and her 'BREXIT means BREXIT' (usual meaningless rhetoric - what the heck does it mean) cabinet offer no obvious leadership (communications), my joy at 'getting our country back' knows no bounds.

To paraphrase Funkadelic, one nation under a misapprehension!

[Deleted User 3289]

More Tea Vicar... One thing i am glad about is if and when we do control our borders the hard working folk of this country will no longer feel they are to be pushed to the back of the queue for housing, school places, doctors appointments, dentist, cheap labour. They tell us the 65 million people now reside on our tiny Island, its likely a lot higher than that, how much more can our fragile services take?

[zigzag]

I think it will take strong politicians to deliver what the Brexiteers thought they had voted for, however I don't think we have those politicians. Result of which is that we will get a half cooked Brexit and within 5-10 years there will be another referendum and we will go back in , which is what the politicians want.

[johnh]

Unless I move house at some point in the next 4 years I'll have the power to cast yet another meaningless vote. This time I'll have the added bonus of wasting my vote on a candidate who not only has no chance of getting elected but even if he/she did has no chance of unBREXITing us if the economic signs we're seeing continue on their southerly journey and the 'battle bus promises' turn out to be the lies many believe them to be.

For now, the lies continue - May (I don't know what kind of vicar her dad was but he certainly fell down on the job when getting the commandments across to his daughter) has already gone back on her promise to impose border controls between Ireland and NI. That's an issue which won't go away that easily I expect! Nor should it cos it's huge (it seems to me).

As each day goes by, as May and her 'BREXIT means BREXIT' (usual meaningless rhetoric - what the heck does it mean) cabinet offer no obvious leadership (communications), my joy at 'getting our country back' knows no bounds.

To paraphrase Funkadelic, one nation under a misapprehension!

Mellor, its only six weeks since the referendum. I'm not sure what it is you expected to have happened? We are still in the EU and likely to be for a couple of years before the exit is finalised. It is only then, and over a period of years after, that the full benefits of Brexit will be felt. I agree with zigzag that, in the longer term, we may re-join the EU but it will be on far better terms than when we left.

[Mellor]

When major change is afoot employees in any business expect 'the leader' to show himself/herself and explain in simple language what's happening, what will happen with timescales etc.

The U.K. is our business and we, the citizens, its employees.

I'm waiting while the key players (Davis/Hammond/Fox) have vanished (pretty much) and May tours. May reminds me of a boss I once had who changed his requirement each time he spoke to someone so only the last person he spoke to ever knew the requirement.

I don't expect anything to change quickly but I do expect our leaders to lead/inform and show me they are managing 'things' rather than being managed themselves (we've all worked for reactive rather than proactive managers I expect and it's not good in my experience).

Which leaves us with Carney, thankfully. The only bloke who seems to have a 'grip'. May meanwhile looks increasingly like the person who grafts away for the leader rather than the actual leader (she's more Brown and Osborne than Blair, Cameron or [gulp] Thatcher. In short we lack the galvanising leader the times demand I guess.

Interesting that 'austerity' isn't the answer though. Who'd have thought it?

[johnh]

Mellor, Davis/Hammond/Fox haven't vanished, they are working on the Brexit proposal to present to the EU. This isn't a five minute job and as it is likely to contain sensitive and confidential information then they are not in a position to knock on your door and give you chapter and verse let alone give those they are negotiating with advance notice.. I think the fact that May has been meeting up with EU leaders is very sensible. I am also puzzled by your comment regarding May 'looking increasingly like the person who grafts away for the leader rather than the actual leader'. How can you tell this when you also complain that she is 'away on tour'?
To use a football analogy, its like criticising a new manager based on a few pre-season friendlies before the season even starts.

[Mellor]

I don't like friendlies, I've popped along from time to time when its been local and a nice little ground but using them to make an assessment of anything much beyond fitness, no way.

I well remember folk at work telling me they couldn't tell me stuff [often junior to me as well] cos it was 'commercial in confidence'. Usually nonsense. They were just flapping around and had nowt useful to say.

BREXIT is a major 'change programme'. Change means keeping folk on side. Keeping folk on side means good communications. Currently there are none from Govt. as far as I can see (I discount the one nation/Milliband speech from May - blatant rhetoric really).

The media are telling us what the options are. The economists are telling us the indicators are worsening and why. It might be good enough for some but for me there's a void at the heart of things which started on election day and has yet to be filled by HM Govt.

Successful change is built on trust. It's starts with a clear statement of where we want to end up [if you don't have a clear finish point you shouldn't leave home] and a simple list of criteria to be used to judge success. Good luck with that little lot. I think i have a right to this information. as a start I think I have a right to know when I might have it. I like mushrooms as much as the next man but being treat like one - no thanks.

It strikes me that all of this stuff is of particular importance because everyone who voted 'out' probably had a different understanding of what out meant. So BREXIT means BREXIT is totally meaningless until we all have a shared understanding of the meaning.

Bet Theresa doesn't know?