The blabla of the forum

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Re: The blabla of the forum

Postby rigger » 06 Dec 2019, 17:11

WOAH !

When did I use the R-word ??

I didn't.
I don't believe in it either, not for the majority of the criminal "class" because to rewire those people you'd need to turn back the clock and give them an entirely different life.

Two things :
1. The "paedo village" IS protecting society. That's the point of it. They stay on the drugs, they stay in their segregated community and they wear tags to protect the greater public.
That's a more humane solution for everyone.
If you advocate killing the kind of paedophiles who would willingly submit to this form of prison (which is what it is, after all) then where do you draw the line ? If you leave that kind of door open, then you're also asking for race, religion and sexuality to be discriminated against and that's a backwards step IMHO.

2. I feel VERY strongly that prison should be a punishment and a deterrent, not a hotel or a social network for criminals. No Sky, no internet, no luxury, full stop.
I would like to see prison cells that are 8x8x8 with one wall open, made of bars, a basic toilet and sink and really basic food served up. Not quite bread and water, it should be balanced but cheap. They can read a book and if they want to take a course then they have to prove their desire first and then do it the old way, not using online services.
I would want the average cost per prisoner to be slashed to the bone and to build more prisons (always public sector, btw, never private security) if necessary. Sentences being longer too and the whole thing tightened up completely.
It's a cost-effective, humanitarian way of dealing with crime.
Not the holiday camp it is at the moment ..
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Re: The blabla of the forum

Postby Selby White » 06 Dec 2019, 18:27

rigger wrote:WOAH !

When did I use the R-word ??

I didn't.
I don't believe in it either, not for the majority of the criminal "class" because to rewire those people you'd need to turn back the clock and give them an entirely different life.


Didn't say you did sorry if it wasn't put well.

It was more about making the point that many period criminals are released far too early to the detriment of all of us.
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Re: The blabla of the forum

Postby Barlow Boy » 06 Dec 2019, 18:32

Surely they don’t stay in this village all the time, what do they do for work etc ?, if they don’t work who pays for it all ?. Do they live out their lives there, if not, then surely that’s them being rehabilitated into society (not sure I said you did agree with rehabilitation by the way Rigger, but I can see how you thought that from my post - apologies)

Personally, I draw the line at the first offence of paedophilia, and I doubt I’m in the minority of the wider public on that one either. Whilst I have every sympathy for what they have gone through as children themselves, which is often the case for those involved in paedophilia, the trend has to be stopped somewhere otherwise it will just go on forever.

As for prisons, I couldn’t agree more, they are an utter joke. I watch those documentaries where the film crew go into prisons and film the day to day goings on. They have everything laid on a plate for them, and then complain about overcrowding and being locked up for 20 odd hours a day. If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.
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Re: The blabla of the forum

Postby johnh » 06 Dec 2019, 19:27

In the late 1940's when I was 12/13 years old and interested in reading the newspapers, if there was a murder, anywhere in the UK, it was front page news. If there is a murder today, it is half a dozen lines on page 96. Capital punishment then,was a deterrent. Today there are young lads in London, carrying knives and stabbing people almost without thinking about it. They know that even if they are caught (which is unlikely) they will only get a few years. We need to clamp down harder on all crime.
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Re: The blabla of the forum

Postby Costy » 06 Dec 2019, 19:43

I totally agree John. I'm not sure about capital punishment as it's obviously a bit final, but there is no real deterrent against committing serious violent crimes. If there was, surely we wouldn't see so much of it. The people who commit them seem to have absolutely zero regard for the consequences of their actions, both to them and their victims. We don't deal with it firmly enough.
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Re: The blabla of the forum

Postby White Knight » 07 Dec 2019, 10:34

I would be completely against capital punishment. It doesn’t work as a deterrent. The U.S. executes more prisoners every year than nearly anyone else (outside of China, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Vietnam and Russia) and their murder rate has remained ridiculously high. In fact it has reduced in the last two decades somewhat when less states were allowing executions.

The UN have produced a number of reports that state it is the poor who are overwhelmingly the ones that will be executed where capital punishment exists.

“Philip Alston, the UN independent expert on poverty and human rights, said that the death penalty has got a big sign on it reading “reserved for the poor”.

“The death penalty is reserved for those who cannot buy themselves out of arrest, cannot afford legal representation, cannot afford a decent appeal, and carry no weight in the eyes of the government,” he said.”
United Nations Human Rights Office Of The High Commissioner


There is also the ongoing danger of killing innocent people. Every country has miscarriages of justice that may eventually lead to a release, apology and some compensation to the victim of the miscarriage but that won’t happen after capital punishment. The Netflix series How They See Us is an excellent and hard hitting example of this, with Donald Trump taking out full page ads calling for those arrested wrongly for the crime in question to be executed.

By the way, murder rates in England and Wales tend to be consistently lower than many European countries, and by a good degree less than Scotland!
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Re: The blabla of the forum

Postby Barlow Boy » 07 Dec 2019, 11:40

White Knight wrote:I would be completely against capital punishment. It doesn’t work as a deterrent.

I’m not saying capital punishment as a deterrent (I agree with what you’re saying), I’m saying capital punishment to protect potential victims going forward, i.e if child abusers are no longer with us, they can’t abuse children in the future.
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Re: The blabla of the forum

Postby rigger » 07 Dec 2019, 12:26

Barlow Boy wrote:
White Knight wrote:I would be completely against capital punishment. It doesn’t work as a deterrent.

I’m not saying capital punishment as a deterrent (I agree with what you’re saying), I’m saying capital punishment to protect potential victims going forward, i.e if child abusers are no longer with us, they can’t abuse children in the future.


BB, what about if the paedo has NEVER committed a crime, never acted on his impulses, but knows what he is and how he's wired, sexually ?
What if he voluntarily comes forth and turns himself in for help ?
What about then ?
Would you still say "KILL HIM !" ??

Those are some of the people in that community.
I hold my hands up and say "Well done" for wanting to protect those innocent lives from something over which they have no choice.
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Re: The blabla of the forum

Postby Deleted User 5081 » 07 Dec 2019, 12:36

rigger wrote:
Barlow Boy wrote:
rigger wrote:When I talk to Jeanna about it, she just says "In my country, we'd kill 'em".
I'm not sure about that, but some form of more severe punishment would help, but who's gonna carry it out ?

If it’s child killers or child sex abusers, I’m more than happy to pull the lever or push the button. I’d do it for free too.


We've discussed this a lot, the two of us I mean.

The problem is proving any act of crime.
IF - and that's a big IF - it can be 100% proven (with DNA, for example) then for rapists I can see the argument.
For paedophilia it's trickier.
Bear with me.
There's a lot of research in the field and an experiment is being trialled in - I think - Germany at the moment.
A whole bunch of child sex offenders have been placed in a remote village. Together. As a community.
They're penitent and admit they have a problem and would like to stop themselves re-offending.
They're on drugs to limit their sex drive and they are not allowed to leave the town without authorisation. They look out for themselves and work together to build a new life, if that's at all possible.

I think it all comes down to whether you can accept paedophilia as a condition - like any kind of fetish or indeed like being gay or straight - that is pre-programmed and involuntary, subconscious, however you want to describe it. In other words, it's how someone's wired, like it or not.

If you can and you have a grain of humanity in you, surely this commune is a good thing ?

I liken it to how we deal with care in the community and mental disabilities (sorry for using that word but it makes sense for clarity).
In this country, we used to have "homes" for people with Downs or severe autism - in my lifetime, I'm talking.
These days, these people are much more involved with society at large and have a far better life with massively improved job prospects, longevity, etc. In short, they're recognised as part of the population and accepted.
My nephew and neice were over about 7 or 8 years ago as my sister had brought them from Jo'burg for a holiday.
The girl was shocked when I stopped and talked to a (very) autistic man that I knew from working in record shops - he used to come in and rearrange CDs that had been placed in the wrong sections as he had OCD. He was wearing slippers in the street because he had bad feet and he smelled a bit and spat when he talked and had greasy hair and didn't really care what he looked like .. but he cared that he was noticed and important and a real person. That simply wouldn't happen in South Africa. If there are people like that and they're white, they generally live in a special home somewhere well out of the way of the family; if they're non-white, they probably wouldn't survive long enough to be homed anywhere.

I'm glad we're progressive.
I'm glad we're aware we're still not doing enough.
That's how a civilised society should work.

I know I've rambled a bit on this, but it's not a simple case of capital punishment for me for some crimes.
I'm actually against it per se, but I know I'd change my mind if it happened to someone I loved, and I am aware that makes me a hypocrite.

I'd like to think we're above barbarism, but some people are born evil no matter what we do.
The trouble is, how do you know ?

Fantastic and a well reasoned post Rigger some great points regarding people with learning difficulties or Autism etc.

I have a sister who is 48 but has the mind of a 10 year old and although she is of this age mentally she is so much more in tune with real feelings and recognizes her instincts far better than what we class as so called normal people do.

She was treated like an outcast to society in Ireland when we moved there from the UK in 1983 and it was awful looking back on it. In the UK all three of us were in the same school even though she had learning difficulties, the school in Halifax provided extra classes for her and others with similar difficulties, but, they included them with the so called normal classes too.

In Ireland they put anyone with physical or learning difficulties in the same school which I always found to be wrong as it didn't help their confidence or potential as they were treated like they were difficult so they stayed difficult. My sister left schooling at 18 and was given slave labor work within the school sewing clothes for the school like uniforms and other items of clothing they would use for the nuns etc. I always hated how she was treated and it never developed her in any shape or form for real life stuff outside. When she finally fulfilled her 3 years in the school work place she was just let go without a thank you.

As of now she is 48 she lives alone with my father being the one who keeps an eye on her, she pays her own bills, cooks her own meals and does her own shopping. she has come on leaps and bounds in the past twenty years or so and developed into a more civilized human being than most so called normal folk, she still has issues with certain things, but, I am so proud of her. she is still emotionally young and mentally younger but she is perfect as my sister. She makes me laugh when i'm on the phone to her about many things.

Ive rambled on a bit myself, It was really enlightening reading your post Rigger. Thanks for the reminder.
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Re: The blabla of the forum

Postby rigger » 07 Dec 2019, 12:54

Now I've re-read my post about the paedo community I realise I said they were all "offenders" but I don't think that's true - I'm pretty sure I read that some of them were potential offenders who knew what their predelictions were, hence the post about them being unable to do anything about it ..
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