Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

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Simple question should we stay in the EU or opt out ?

Poll ended at 26 Mar 2016, 18:48

IN
6
50%
OUT
6
50%
 
Total votes: 12

Nic
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Post by Nic »

Viduka Hits The Mark wrote:
Polls say that a G.E. would still produce a hung parliament
The 2017 polls had Labour 20 points behind. ;)

Personally i think there would be a swing back to the Tories now Labour have come out in support of a second referendum, providing their was a new Conservative leader. Tom Watson was on Marr this morning confirming it would be in Labour's Manifesto if a GE was called. One thing i do know from conducting my own mini poll at work :D is that people (admittedly most are over a certain age) say time and time again they would not countenance a Corbyn led government. I have to say i now find myself agreeing with them.
It seems many in the Labour party are blissfully unaware or in denial of the liability they have. They point to the surge in party membership and G.E. result as justification as to they have the right leader, rather than consider why they did not romp home with an unpopular tory gov't in.

Surely the G.E. has already started, such as May's broadcast saying MP's are stopping Brexit. If Labour's manifesto says they will offer a second referendum if they get in - it will probably backfire. Whilst a second referendum probably is the only way now to decide it, the electorate don't want to be told that.
Deleted User 3289

Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Post by Deleted User 3289 »

Sorry guys :D

Watching Newsnight last night its become clear what the Hilary Benn surrender act is all about. Its no wonder the EU are not budging on a deal. When they have a historic Saturday sitting on the 19th October (which coincidentally there will be a large demonstration by people wanting to revoke article 50 on that precise day, great publicity eh) its Hilary Benn's intention to take over the order paper and test to see if there is the numbers to agree on a confirmatory Referendum. Which sadly i think there will be!

The people will then have a choice between:

Theresa May's deal, which remember got voted down 3 times in the HOC because no one in parliament liked the deal, and as far as i'm aware there was very little enthusiasm for it in the public domain either. Great eh!

Or Yes you've guessed it Remain.

Great place to be for Leave voters.

It would seem to me now looking in, that there will be the numbers to get the confirmatory referendum over the line. It only failed by 12 votes during the indicative vote process and now they will be able to count on the Tory rebels i imagine.

My personal choice and i think a fair one is for a GE. Leave voters have been faced with a Remain parliament for the last 3 and half years. Around 75% of parliamentarians voted Remain during the 2016 referendum which has made any PM chance of getting a deal through parliament nigh on impossible. In the last GE in 2017 80% of Parliamentarians were re-elected standing on manifesto's that said they would honour the result of the 2016 referendum. Its time to see if the public think their elected politicians have acted in their interests?

A GE will allow members of the public to elect a government that will either complete Brexit, Deal or No deal a mandate again if you like (i know). Or a party that will unequivocally revoke article 50. The way i see it that's the choice we face.

Boris is ahead in most polls and would likely get a majority to deliver Brexit with a very different looking parliament and arithmetic. I personally think Labour would be decimated up North and in the Midlands so its understandable they don't want a GE, but hey that's democracy.

We are close to one of the greatest political swindles in history. Remember... Parliament rejected Theresa Mays deal 3 times because it wasn't good enough on both sides of the argument. Now they are about to ask the people to ratify that exact deal. I smell a rat do you?
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Barlow Boy
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Post by Barlow Boy »

Viduka Hits The Mark wrote: My personal choice and i think a fair one is for a GE.
My personal choice and I think a fair one is to leave, just like 52% voted for.
When you retire, you switch bosses - from the one that hired you, to the one that married you.
Deleted User 728

Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Post by Deleted User 728 »

I voted remain and I am a fervant supporter of Europe generally, let alone politically, so I welcome any chance we have to stay in.
I haven't followed the process as closely as many other people because I lost faith in politics so long ago I'm almost apathetic about it these days. I have my beliefs and moral/ethical stance - which far outweighs anything else like religion or patriotism - and theoretically I'm closer to being a communist than anything else, but I know that system could never work anywhere in the real world because some humans are greedy.

My problem with the Leave campaign is the hypocritical nature of them saying "what about democracy ?" and "respect the result".
The campaign was funded illegally and lies were told to influence the public (eg that money saved would be spent on the NHS).
How is that democratic ?? To actually design an entire program of propaganda with a bent budget that's purely intended to hoodwink the electorate with promises that could never be delivered ?
Putting aside the fact that the original referrendum was about leaving with a deal or remaining in the EU, not a pure "leave means leave", is this how democracy should work ?
Is that acceptable to lie and cheat your way to victory ?
It's wrong. It's immoral. It's repugnant.

It's not democratic so to play that card is laughable IMHO.

To answer your post, I think a second referrendum would be the best outcome, but so long as the rules are followed of course.
People know more about it now anyway so we'd definitely end up remaining.



This is only my opinion and I'm surprised I've even written this because it's such a caustic subject and can't be arsed to argue about it most of the time ..

I believe what I believe.
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Barlow Boy
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Post by Barlow Boy »

rigger wrote: To answer your post, I think a second referrendum would be the best outcome, but so long as the rules are followed of course.
People know more about it now anyway so we'd definitely end up remaining.
Yes, we would definitely end up remaining, which is why all those who voted remain want a second referendum.
When you retire, you switch bosses - from the one that hired you, to the one that married you.
Deleted User 3289

Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Post by Deleted User 3289 »

Barlow Boy wrote:
Viduka Hits The Mark wrote: My personal choice and i think a fair one is for a GE.
My personal choice and I think a fair one is to leave, just like 52% voted for.
I agree pal, but not going to happen with the current 75% Remain parliament. The numbers need to change imo to solve the deadlock. Leave voters have had to stand back and watch every trick in the statutory book pulled by the likes of Bercow. The Tories have been useless and because of that they now have the Brexit party to contend with.

I respect your position Rigger and can see your logic. I was just stating the current position as i see it. I also thought it was unfair if you remember before the Referendum that every think-tank, BOE ect ect (so called project fear) were telling people that a vote to Leave would result in mass job losses and a instant recession, not to mention George Osborne's punishment budget to scare the living daylights out of people. I think i read somewhere we have had record foreign investment this year?

For me its about Leaving the political institutions of the EU not pulling up the drawbridge.
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johnh
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Post by johnh »

Just to clarify. The 2016 referendum was to 'stay' or 'leave'. There were no options for deals of any type. The Labour party appear to be adopting the EU undemocratic approach - if you lose the first vote then keep voting until you get the result you want. I used to be against a second referendum but would welcome it now. Leave would increase its majority. A post on here said Labour would be hammered in a GE in the midlands and north, so would Remain in a second referendum. The problem Remain have is that all their leading lights are from the London Liberal Elite. Goes down like a lead balloon in the midlands and the north.
I once played against Don Revie.
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Post by Deleted User 728 »

I get that John, but we know more than we did then and in hindsight it was a very naive, very simplistic referrendum.
But everything's easier looking back it, isn't it ?

As for the economy : do you know anyone who's tried to move in the last three years ? Do you see the empty high streets ? The businesses folding ? The food banks ? It's not exactly booming, is it ?
Wait till the infrastructure comes to a grinding halt too.
What happens with the expected food shortages ?
That won't help the economy.
Deleted User 3289

Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Post by Deleted User 3289 »

As for the economy : do you know anyone who's tried to move in the last three years ? Do you see the empty high streets ? The businesses folding ? The food banks ? It's not exactly booming, is it ?
Wait till the infrastructure comes to a grinding halt too.
What happens with the expected food shortages ?
That won't help the economy.
I know nowt about economics, but i bet you can attribute alot of the above back to the banking bailouts. I also think the highstreets are in a process of change along with our shopping habits. Don't forget we have been in the EU for the last 40years. In some Northern Towns the Infrastructure is already at a grinding halt. :D

https://www.chathamhouse.org/expert/com ... et-be-felt

Its also my personal opinion that alot of the poverty we see today can be traced back to the Blair Labour government. The house price rise during Blair's tenure imo caused misery for the younger generation (which seems odd that its the millennial's who love Labour) and with that drove up rental markets affecting about 60% of the population (estimate). As for food shortages, try Aldi they source local where they can get it. :thumbup:
Last edited by Deleted User 3289 on 11 Oct 2019, 10:05, edited 1 time in total.
Nic
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Post by Nic »

People's opinions are skewed by what they voted for or want. For instance the proroguing of parliament, if you are a leaver, then it was right because parliament is full of leavers trying to thwart it; if you are a remainer it was illegal and the PM misled the queen to ensure a no deal brexit.
Similar with a confirmatory referendum (rather than calling it a second, or technically third) , remainers want one as it's a chance to overturn the previous, and leavers don't in case they lose. Think about it if you do a heads or tails coin toss, you only say best of three if you lose.

Why would a second referendum be remain? I suppose if the choices were May deal or remain, but what if it was leave deal or no deal by January and a remain option. Is it because some who voted leave will not vote a second time so the numbers won't be there, or people may have changed their mind? I always feel its "we can't believe we fluked it, best not risk a recount" - after all Farage on referendum night said he wouldn't stop campaigning to leave if Leave lost.

Not sure why a GE would resolve it, people vote on more than one issue. Maybe if Boris' people vs parliament gives him a majority, but if it's a hung parliament - what does that solve? May went to polls after the referendum thinking the 52% would help her increase her majority, but she lost that and ended up with help from the DUP. If somehow Labour was the largest party but no overall majority we would be in turmoil (after all there is the talk of a "government of national unity" but far from united on who should lead it!).
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