Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

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Simple question should we stay in the EU or opt out ?

Poll ended at 26 Mar 2016, 18:48

IN
6
50%
OUT
6
50%
 
Total votes : 12

Re: Brexit - Yes or No?

Postby Deleted User 3150 » 18 Feb 2016, 12:11

Looking like the Tories are going to be in power for the next hundred years, Donald Trump leading the polls and a prospect of leaving the Union.

Somebody please pass the Prozac! :crazy:
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No?

Postby johnh » 18 Feb 2016, 15:03

mapperleywhite wrote:Most definitely IN! - couldn't go back to 200 fags and a litre of booze.....

Geographically it makes sense for us to be in a union with other European countries (Although the timing of our renegotiation is spectacularly poor - as an EU guy pointed out yesterday 'we have other things on our minds - refugees, Eurozone, Putin'). We voted 'in' in 1974, perhaps in the aftermath of the first oil crisis and the realization that our days of empire were over. My understanding of what we signed up for then was closer trade links with EU members. And that for me is the key thing - our international trading position has benefitted hugely from EU membership and continues to provide the base for the strong economy we have today. Free access to over 350 million consumers is not easily replaced. Nobody has yet explained the consequence of a 'out' decision on, for example, the Nissan and Toyota factories that provide thousands of jobs. If there's a tariff for exporting cars to EU countries they will surely take their sushi bowls elsewhere.

What I object to, though, is the squandering of public money by EU institutions - wasn't there a case a couple of years ago when a virtual unknown UK MEP took up a senior job in Brussels on a salary of € 350,000/year? Do they fly Ryanir and stay in B&B's when they go to meetings? There's a huge gravy train that I'm sure Sepp Blatter would feel comfortable being a part of, if only he weren't Swiss.

Some aspects of the euro are good - no more endless fiddling around changing money into all the different currencies. And doing business it's much more efficient. But it has been found wanting - those responsible for allowing Greece in without auditing their budget deficit should be held to account big time.

The Schengen agreement has been shown up to have some serious downsides over the past year, but again the idea is a good one in theory.

It's clear a lot of people are troubled by the prospect of EU citizens, particularly from the poorer countries, coming here and getting benefits. I don't really see how they can, having had first hand experience that no benefits are payable unless you have three years of national insurance contributions. Our relative economic success is a magnet for people who want to work and the population projections are for it to continue to grow; the government MUST recognize this by building more homes and putting infrastructure in place - they're happy to take taxes, VAT, fuel duty etc from these immigrants so they're getting extra money. And don't forget we have a free choice of 27 countries to live, work and retire in.

I'd certainly like to distance ourselves from some of the daft legislation the EU comes up with - wasn't there one about the flavour of our crisps at one point? Who comes up with this bullcrap and how much did it cost to do so? At least we still drive on the left and sell carpet in 3 metre widths but specify the length in feet!

The 'out' people are thinking short-term and, for once in this country, we need to think long term and continuity.


There is zero chance of Tariff's on British built cars if it meant 'tit for tat' tariff's on BMW's, VW's, Peugeots etc., After all, Germany runs the EU while France thinks they do.
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No?

Postby isrodger » 18 Feb 2016, 16:27

johnh wrote:
mapperleywhite wrote:Most definitely IN! - couldn't go back to 200 fags and a litre of booze.....

Geographically it makes sense for us to be in a union with other European countries (Although the timing of our renegotiation is spectacularly poor - as an EU guy pointed out yesterday 'we have other things on our minds - refugees, Eurozone, Putin'). We voted 'in' in 1974, perhaps in the aftermath of the first oil crisis and the realization that our days of empire were over. My understanding of what we signed up for then was closer trade links with EU members. And that for me is the key thing - our international trading position has benefitted hugely from EU membership and continues to provide the base for the strong economy we have today. Free access to over 350 million consumers is not easily replaced. Nobody has yet explained the consequence of a 'out' decision on, for example, the Nissan and Toyota factories that provide thousands of jobs. If there's a tariff for exporting cars to EU countries they will surely take their sushi bowls elsewhere.

What I object to, though, is the squandering of public money by EU institutions - wasn't there a case a couple of years ago when a virtual unknown UK MEP took up a senior job in Brussels on a salary of € 350,000/year? Do they fly Ryanir and stay in B&B's when they go to meetings? There's a huge gravy train that I'm sure Sepp Blatter would feel comfortable being a part of, if only he weren't Swiss.

Some aspects of the euro are good - no more endless fiddling around changing money into all the different currencies. And doing business it's much more efficient. But it has been found wanting - those responsible for allowing Greece in without auditing their budget deficit should be held to account big time.

The Schengen agreement has been shown up to have some serious downsides over the past year, but again the idea is a good one in theory.

It's clear a lot of people are troubled by the prospect of EU citizens, particularly from the poorer countries, coming here and getting benefits. I don't really see how they can, having had first hand experience that no benefits are payable unless you have three years of national insurance contributions. Our relative economic success is a magnet for people who want to work and the population projections are for it to continue to grow; the government MUST recognize this by building more homes and putting infrastructure in place - they're happy to take taxes, VAT, fuel duty etc from these immigrants so they're getting extra money. And don't forget we have a free choice of 27 countries to live, work and retire in.

I'd certainly like to distance ourselves from some of the daft legislation the EU comes up with - wasn't there one about the flavour of our crisps at one point? Who comes up with this bullcrap and how much did it cost to do so? At least we still drive on the left and sell carpet in 3 metre widths but specify the length in feet!

The 'out' people are thinking short-term and, for once in this country, we need to think long term and continuity.


There is zero chance of Tariff's on British built cars if it meant 'tit for tat' tariff's on BMW's, VW's, Peugeots etc., After all, Germany runs the EU while France thinks they do.


Interesting that - is BMW a German company something like 30% of all Bmw engines are built in the UK plus Rools Royce and mini. The actual ownership was (a couple of years back) 40% in the hands of British fund managers! Ideally we just need to change our tax and benefits systems to disadvantage migrants and benefit the indigenous population.
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No?

Postby johnh » 18 Feb 2016, 16:30

whiteinfrance wrote:Looking like the Tories are going to be in power for the next hundred years, Donald Trump leading the polls and a prospect of leaving the Union.

Somebody please pass the Prozac! :crazy:


whiteinfrance, you forgot to mention Putin! :shock:
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No?

Postby Deleted User 3150 » 19 Feb 2016, 10:00

Yes thanks for reminding me about him.

That's an extra Prozac then! :crazy:
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No?

Postby Deleted User 3150 » 19 Feb 2016, 10:02

We're all doomed !!!! :o
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No?

Postby White Knight » 19 Feb 2016, 20:40

johnh wrote:
whiteinfrance wrote:Looking like the Tories are going to be in power for the next hundred years, Donald Trump leading the polls and a prospect of leaving the Union.

Somebody please pass the Prozac! :crazy:


whiteinfrance, you forgot to mention Putin! :shock:


It has to be remembered that the EU has united Europe more than any army or empire in history and has presided over one of the longest spells of peace between the member states in modern history. This alone has been some achievement, while it's management has been far from perfect.

Putin fears it because it has attracted so many countries that Russia previously would have held sway over, and yet it is also Russia's largest trading partner by a distance. Any break up would suit him as Russia sitting down with an average European country to deal on trade is not a balanced negotiation. When he sits with the current EU it's an entirely different matter.
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No?

Postby johnh » 19 Feb 2016, 21:30

If we leave the EU and Corbyn wins the next election it will be us and Russia against the EU. :D
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No?

Postby White Knight » 20 Feb 2016, 12:46

Just announced, you'll all have your say where it matters, at the ballot box on June 23rd. Interesting times!
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No?

Postby johnh » 25 Feb 2016, 15:16

Why don't we hold an IN or OUT poll on here? Do we have the facility to do this? I think we have done it before on other issues.
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