Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

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Simple question should we stay in the EU or opt out ?

Poll ended at 26 Mar 2016, 18:48

IN
6
50%
OUT
6
50%
 
Total votes : 12

Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Postby rigger » 29 Mar 2019, 10:31

I've been trying to ignore what's going on, mainly in the hope that somehow we'd end up staying in by default, but have heard a lot this week about the fact that the electorate voted in the referendum and the parties agreed to honour the outcome no matter what or "risk democracy being devalued in this country". They banged on about faith, trust and honour in upholding the process.

Hold on a minute .. I have a real problem with all that and it's not because I'm a "snowflake" or "didn't get the result I wanted first time round" but because illegal money was used and the leave party lied about the use of the money we'd save being out of the EU.
The problem I have is with the argument is based on honour.
What honour ?
The honour of using dishonest funding to push for a Leave outcome ?
The honour of telling everyone you'd spend the money on the NHS and by plastering that figure on the side of a bus ?

There is no honour in cheating and lying and therefore there should be another referendum.

The REAL reason the leavers don't want one is because they know they'd lose it and no amount of verbal diarrhoea can persuade me otherwise.
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Postby Sniffer » 30 Mar 2019, 07:56

Of course if Remain had won 52:48 Leave would have been totally fine about that. They would have accepted "Democracy in Action" and "The Will of The People", wouldn't they?

From May 2016:
"The question of a second referendum was raised by Mr Farage in an interview with the Mirror in which he said: "In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the Remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics- ... m-36306681

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/n ... um-7985017

Oops!
Neverendums or let's call the whole thing off?
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Postby johnh » 30 Mar 2019, 11:06

I think it will be a 'no deal' Brexit by default. The EU elite seem to favour it (it doesn't affect them though it will affect the member states.) Macron is particularly keen as with Merkel on her way out, Macron sees an opportunity for himself to be the leading light in the EU. A disaffected, remaining, GB raining on his parade is the last thing he wants. I might even put him on my Christmas card list.
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Postby Nic » 30 Mar 2019, 11:09

If remain had of won by a similar margin, the brexiters would not have left it, just as SNP haven't said they will no longer seek independence. What probably would have happened in the time is a campaign for concessions and a campaign to make a statement this years euro elections.

I agree most leavers I know don't want to debate or consider anything, just "we have already voted to leave" and flatly refuse to consider anything. By that rhetoric as we had a referendum in 1972, then we should not have had on in 2016.

To me it's not that the leave campaign used illegal money etc - because that sounds like trying to find technicalities of why it should be rerun, but astounding how weak the remain campaign was - on the most part it was left to the government. I suppose many people assumed remain would win easily so felt did not need to robustly dispute falsities or campaign to change opinion. It was seen as a conservative vs conservative issue mostly.

Opinion polls show that opinion has not shifted much so a second referendum would still have a narrow victory by one side or the other. Both major parties campaigned on recognising the result of the referendum but both remain split in parliament so that votes continue to fail. There is talk of a general election, but polls still show the outcome would probably still be a hung parliament again.

If we had another referendum, would the choice be binary and what options would there be. It's like this poll
Stay In - do you mean revoke article 50 , adopt the euro etc, or keep in the EU but out of the political unification
Opt Out - do you mean leave with no deal, or move to Canada plus, or Norway plus, or the May Deal

The problem, like the series of indicative votes in parliament, is it means different things to different people.
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Postby Frankie » 30 Mar 2019, 11:28

Viduka Hits The Mark wrote:Maybe Tusk is Satan? Its a odd thing to say about democracy?

Don't worry about that second vote: Oh Jeremy Corbyn.



Finally i know where he really stands! :wave: ;)


Surely this is all 100% down to the ineptitudes of May and the tories?
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Postby Selby White » 30 Mar 2019, 11:30

To be honest and I'm no political expert I don't think there should have been a referendum in the first place (hindsight is a great skill :shock: ).

We pay our politicians good money to run this country (and make important decisions), all they do is create a mess, its all about scoring brownie points rather than considering the good of the country.
We need to lock them all in a room, stop paying them and not let them out until they sort out this mess they have created.
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Postby Selby White » 30 Mar 2019, 11:33

Frankie wrote:
Surely this is all 100% down to the ineptitudes of May and the tories?



Not at all its about virtually all of our MP's putting personal interests before the peoples interests.
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Postby Nic » 30 Mar 2019, 12:15

We elect representatives not delegates, so they represent their constituents but not taking orders directly from constituents.
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Postby johnh » 30 Mar 2019, 13:27

Nic wrote:We elect representatives not delegates, so they represent their constituents but not taking orders directly from constituents.


They take their orders from Party manifesto's, which is what the electorate vote for. The manifesto's of both main parties indicated that they would implement Brexit. If Brexit doesn't happen then politics in this country will change forever, and not for the best.
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Re: Brexit - Yes or No? - Poll added

Postby Viduka Hits The Mark » 30 Mar 2019, 18:38

rigger wrote:
The REAL reason the leavers don't want one is because they know they'd lose it and no amount of verbal diarrhoea can persuade me otherwise.


What would you suggest is on the ballot paper this time Rig? If it were Leave & Remain again, and leave won, what then? I think it would be alot closer than you think if a managed no deal was on the ballot paper. You won't mobilise Leave voters to vote again, just by putting Leave on the ballot paper. We gave them our answer once and they failed to implement the decision. So why should we be asked to tell them again?

As for the so called confirmatory vote. That makes me laugh the most. They effectively won't leave voters to vote between Remain or BRINO Remain. Crackers... :D
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