Hifi, AV and vinyl

[Another Northern Soul]

The only other place I frequent now is a hifi forum called ArtOfSound.

Similar sort of place to here in that it's mostly "older chaps", shall we say ?

Lots of banter, lots of music and movie chat, loads of off-topic bollocks as well as one hell of a lot of tech stuff about equipment.
There's loads of amateur/semi-pro/pro hifi buffs out there mucking about with electronics, restoration and cabinetry (I'm a dab hand at the woody stuff myself) and I enjoy perusing the galleries.
It also has a strong ethos regarding kit and the selling thereof. Rather than use the dreaded 'Bay, a lot of us swap, buy and sell our gear through the site, saving money as it's all a bit "mates' rates" once you've been on there a while.

It's a lot like this place in that there's some REALLY sound individuals who help each other out with loads of stuff, from ferrying speakers up and down the country for nowt if they're going that way to having meet-ups - you take a bit of kit along and listen to each other's gear over a coffee or beer or whatever - and dishing out free advice.

It's brilliant if you're into music and, obviously, hifi itself.



I did used to be a member of a Subbuteo forum but had a massive, very public falling out with a West Ham skinhead who'd move to the Czech Republic because his part of London wasn't white enough anymore. I'm not making this up.
The mods and admins did sod all to rein in his vile opinions so I called him out and ended up leaving over it.
I don't need poisonous people in my life.

Forums should be fun places for like-minded people to share opinions, news, photos, stories and make new friends, not spread hatred ..

Rigger, I was pleasantly surprised to be advised by Richer Sounds recently that my Sony 5 CD hifi doodah does have a line-in for phono ie for a turntable. Could you recommend a good, cheap turntable or even a reputable second hand etc dealer? Thanks.

[Deleted User 728]

I can't remember where you live, mate. Tell me that and I can help out with the dealer thing.

First question : what's your budget ?
Second question : do you have a record collection now or are you intending to buy vinyl to listen to and if so, do you mean brand new (V expensive) or used (much better value, especially if you get it from a site like discogs.com) ?

What model Sony is it ??
I need to know if it's got a proper Phono input (ie with a step-up tranformer built in as the analogue signal is very quiet compared to the usual Aux digital one) or whether you need to factor in a phono pre-amp.


Christ.

I've just read that back and I sound like one of those winker hobbyists already, like in this sketch :

[Sniffer]

I need to know if it's got a proper Phono input (ie with a step-up tranformer built in as the analogue signal is very quiet compared to the usual Aux digital one) or whether you need to factor in a phono pre-amp.

Good point. My Denon mini system has an aux port but I had to get a phono box MM pre-amp for my record player. It's just a cigarette pack sized gizmo. It cost about £80 a couple of years ago. Mine's a Pro-Ject pre-amp as is my record player.

[Deleted User 728]

I thought I'd create a new thread as the hifi chat was becoming a big tangent, even for Pythagoras (ie me!)



The Pro-Ject pre-amp is almost the industry standard these days. It's a toss-up between that and the Cambridge Audio model :


£60 Richer Sounds


£100 Richer Sounds


To be honest, you don't need to spend that much money on one if the rest of the system is more "budget" in nature.
You can buy them from as low as £13-20 on Amazon and if you only have a midi system that's probably the way to go, along with a good second-hand deck.

I wouldn't consider buying a brand new turntable from Pro-Ject or Rega (the best two manufacturers to get you going) unless you have a decent separates system - it's just a waste of money otherwise and you wouldn't hear the benefit.

Before we go any further, can I please go on record (see what I did there ?) and state categorically that you shouldn't waste your hard-earned on one of those "retro" looking suitcase jobbies from Crossley, Akai and other makers. They are absolute garbage and it really bugs me that they're marketed as being "the real thing" and you'll "hear the difference" with vinyl like it's gonna change your life or something.
I have a Linn Sondek with an Ittok arm and an Arcam cartridge that's worth about £2500 .. and that's just my record deck, let alone what I'm playing it through. My CD player is a modest Sony model which was about £200 when new and it easily matches and often surpasses the Linn as a source (ie primary listening device) depending on the recording quality, the vinyl itself, the mastering on the CD, etc.
Most brand new LP pressings are superb - thick heavyweight vinyl is the dog's, it really is - but nearly ALL CDs are as good. Only the earlier generations which weren't remastered sound a bit flat sometimes, but again it also depends on other factors.

I use a couple of recordings for test purposes - Grace Jones' cover of Roxy Music's Private Life is usually the first one I reach for.
On CD it's crystal clear with punchy bass and drums from Sly and Robbie, just like it should be.
On my original vinyl (c. 1982 I think) it's also bang on - it was recorded by Island and sounds amazing.
Contrast that with a vinyl recording of David Bowie's Heroes (early 80s reissue on thinner plastic) and it sounds weak and a bit muddy. Bung the CD on and BOOM it comes to life and stands as one of the greatest anthems of all time.

Knowing one or two tracks inside out is invaluable when listening to new equipment, by the way, so if you do intend to try before buying always take a couple of CDs/LPs along.

I'll shut up now and wait for ANS' answers to my questions before going on ..

Just for the hell of it, this is my system :

VINYL SOURCE : Linn Sondek LP12, Ittok, A&R P77
PHONO STAGE : Musical Fidelity XLPS v3 Phono Stage
DIGITAL SOURCE : Sony CDP-XE520 CD Player
DIGITAL ANALOGUE CONVERTER : SMSL Sanskrit DAC
RADIO : Pure DAB tuner
PRE-AMP : Tisbury Mk.1
POWER AMP : 2 x Meridian 205 monoblock
SPEAKERS : Rega Jura Mk.2
HEADPHONES : Grado SR80

And though it's a bit pointless as you'll probably be listening to it on tinny PC speakers, here it is playing some Oscar Peterson :

[Sniffer]

It sounds great through my Hercules XPS 2.010 PC speaker - the right one as the left doesn't work. I'll try it on my phone later for full surround-sound tinnyness.
Can you play that bass?

[Deleted User 728]

Can you play that bass?

.. er ..

Not really, no.
I taught myself a couple of lines from songs I love but no, I can't.

I've got an alto sax too and used to have a keyboard and a full set of harmonicas but I can't play squat.
I sing. I sang in a band for a few years.
My sister can play anything and she's a dance teacher in ballet, tap, modern and jazz - she's like bloody Roy Castle

The bass was £30 and just round the corner on GumTree so I had to have it
The Marshall amp cost more !

[Sniffer]

Me neither really. I mean I can pick out a tune on any instrument you give me but when it comes down to actually learning to play I'm just too damned lazy. I've had guitars since I was about 14 but so did other people and they were better than me. I rapidly went from lead guitar to singer only using the guitar as a writing tool. A couple or 3 years back we got the old band back together for the guitarists 50th birthday party but the bassist didn't want to know. I ended up playing bass and singing. We did alright (and played 2 more parties since) but I learnt my limitations. I'll stick to warbling if I can.

[Another Northern Soul]

I can't remember where you live, mate. Tell me that and I can help out with the dealer thing.

First question : what's your budget ?
Second question : do you have a record collection now or are you intending to buy vinyl to listen to and if so, do you mean brand new (V expensive) or used (much better value, especially if you get it from a site like discogs.com) ?

What model Sony is it ??
I need to know if it's got a proper Phono input (ie with a step-up tranformer built in as the analogue signal is very quiet compared to the usual Aux digital one) or whether you need to factor in a phono pre-amp.


Christ.

I've just read that back and I sound like one of those winker hobbyists already, like in this sketch :

I'm LEEDS!

The new turntable would need to be pre-amped. Sorry, I do this a lot, I'm not sure at all why, it's a Panasonic not a Sony, model SA AK 270. The guy at RS said he checked the manual for it and that it does have a line input at the front so the turntable would have to have 'phonostage' already within.

He recommended Denon DP300 but I want good quality as cheap as I can get. The vinyl is all old and I wouldn't be playing it to death.

[Deleted User 3289]

Rig. Not having had a record player since I sold my Technics SL1800 many years ago. How would you say a Flac file compares in quality against a vinyl of the same tune? And have you tried any of the premium music streaming services such as Tidal?

[Deleted User 728]

the turntable would have to have 'phonostage' already within.

I think you can probably work out already that it doesn't need to be inside the deck itself.

That Panasonic you've got - did you mean the SC-AK270 ?



What HiFi gave it three stars (out of 5) and tested it at £140.
So you've got a £140 system and the guy at Richer is trying to flog you a £300 deck ??

I love Richer for what they do - and was served by Julian Richer himself in the original London Bridge branch back in the day (and he's written a great book about running a business called The Richer Way) but the way the business has been manoeuvred makes me have reservations these days. They have a stake in Cambridge Audio, Mordaunt Short and Gale among others which is why they sell so many of their products. If you know what you want, they're great - I usually go in and up to the counter, ask for whatever it is and then get my card out to pay. That way they know you're serious and you can be in and out inside 5 minutes.

Honestly, it's pointless you buying a deck at that kind of money.
You're better off going for a second-hand one in good nick - one of the 80s/90s plastic bodied Jap decks would be ideal and cost you £50 tops. Keep an eye on GumTree for one and obviously eBay but be wary as a lot of people are overpricing right now.
Use this thread and post the links and I'll appraise them for you if you find any.

I bought my ex a Pioneer PL-12D for TEN POUNDS eighteen months ago and put an entire system together for less than £100 - all vintage gear, all good quality kit in its day and built to last. It sounded gorgeous either with vinyl or playing her Apple laptop through the Aux port on the amp.

I've just had a look on GumTree and this one was posted three weeks ago in Leeds, so it's probably gone. It's the model that superseded the PL-12D but very similar :
https://www.gumtree.com/p/record-player ... 1261858822

I'd guess you could probably get the deck separately for £60-70 and that would be worth it.
The one I bought I could've sold on for £100 fairly quickly.

You need to be aware of the cost of replacing a stylus so the deck in the ad above would be ideal as you could buy a new one for the cartridge for about £15 (it looks like a Shure and they're readily available today).
Some of the more plasticky looking Jap decks tend to have crappy cheapo carts on so when I say keep an eye out, try to look for something a bit more substantial - "oversized" is what you're after, not a small black deck sitting on top of a one-body system made to look like separates.

I hope I'm explaining all this okay - it can be a bit overwhelming to begin with.

Cash Converters and places like that are good too - you might get a bargain. NEVER pay what they've put on the tag - ask for their best price and you WILL get a discount. Also, some of those dodgy looking phone/hifi/computer/musical instrument shops can be great places.
I actually bought my first amp in one of those - a massive Panasonic receiver that was built like a tank. Beautiful bit of kit with a heavyweight flywheel so when you gave it a spin the radio would go bananas !

Anyway .. enough rambling .. let me know what you think !