LUFCTALK

My saddest day ever, living in Spain. Here's a quick general explanation from my part.

Catalunya has 16.7% of the total Spanish population - and several million more than Scotland - big, but of course it will never ever have a majority of the MPs on Spanish soil. But Madrid says this independence vote is against the law. It has to be done from Madrid. Up to here good. But where it goes off-course is that any change has to be voted for by ALL Spanish people and not just those from Catalonia. Impossible to go ahead then. Why? Because although Catalunya has 16.7% of the population it produces OVER one-quarter of the wealth of Spain. Politicians and people of other regions are only interested in the economy, we all know that, so they'll NEVER allow a vote like Scotland.

What has really inspired this recent uprising in nationalism is that the Catalans voted for an amplification of autonomy status - and perfectly legally, approved by Madrid! - in 2010. It was widely approved by the regional population. But the PP (right-wing) party got worried that they might now get too much regional power, and went to the high Constitutional Court to get it overturned. And did so. Because the Spanish jurisdiction is very much politically influenced. THAT is what really started to fuel the big independence drive - people thought "if we get no respect for our views and legally binding vote, we might as well go it alone".

Back 10-15 years ago you'd find independence sentiments at about 17-20%. Now it's somewhere between 42 and 58%, depending on which parties they include in the equation. But it's growing VERY fast, 90% of youngsters voting first time want Catalonia as an independent country.

So Mr. Mariano Rajoy has one hell of a problem tonight. This is not going to go away ... far from it.

Scenes like this are truly shocking, towards pacific people - and there are DOZENS of videos now coming out of this type:

https://twitter.com/RitaBosaho/status/9 ... 4130424832

https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/statu ... 7910705152

Makes me ASHAMED to have gained dual nationality

David

The Spanish government has a record of not engaging and sitting down to talk through issues like this. They missed a glorious chance to work this out with the Catalan people. They have welched on numerous deals with Cataluña since democracy was set up in 1975 after Franco's death. Now they have totally mishandled this vote with an arrogance and brutality that would be disappointing to see in a third world dictatorship. Imagine what would be said if these scenes were being broadcast from any non European country. People going out to vote being beaten off the streets by the police!

In typical fashion, Madrid doesn't seem to recognise that today's actions will have done more to ensure Cataluña's independence than anything the regional separatist parties could ever have done.

Absolutely despicable behaviour by the police, who have obviously been told to go in and clear people by any means necessary. How the hell the Spanish government thinks this approach is going to stop the push for independence is beyond me. It's more likely to start a civil war.

It just goes to show doesn't it, that western governments like to put themselves on a pedestal of being a fair democracy, but any sniff of a uprising of any sort and they show that they are capable of being just as brutal as any regime out there. This coming only weeks after the terrible terrorist attack in Barcelona. Spain shame on you!

Excuse the what you might see as my obsession on this. I've not got any magic wand on this, but am following things all day long. My wife Rosa is Catalan...and got plenty of Catalan friends

daib0 wrote:Excuse the what you might see as my obsession on this. I've not got any magic wand on this, but am following things all day long. My wife Rosa is Catalan...and got plenty of Catalan friends

My ex is also called Rosa and is also Catalan

She felt extremely strongly about this whole issue but was also pragmatic enough to believe the Madridistas would never allow Catalunia to leave, purely for financial reasons.
The EU should be supporting all its members and potential new ones by putting pressure on the Spanish government to allow the voting to go ahead without this kind of nonsense going on. The more they protest and try to get the police to intervene, the weaker they look and the stronger they'll actually be making the Catalan population.

Good luck to them, the Welsh, the Scots and anyone else who wants to break free from their big brother state.
It's their right.

Even the Cornish

The EU have sat back and largely ignored the situation, just a few mealy mouthed comments. I agree with Rigger, they should have allowed the vote and whatever the outcome, sat around a table with those involved and had democratic discussions on the way forward.

PS Have Rigger's ex Rita and daib0's Rita ever been seen together in the same room?

Ha !
It's Rosa.
Actually, it's Maria di Rosa but she preferred Rosa, or my anglicised ROO actually

rigger wrote:Ha !
It's Rosa.
Actually, it's Maria di Rosa but she preferred Rosa, or my anglicised ROO actually

Mine is Rosa María !

daib0 wrote:

rigger wrote:Ha !
It's Rosa.
Actually, it's Maria di Rosa but she preferred Rosa, or my anglicised ROO actually

Mine is Rosa María !

Rosa Maria te amo ... as the Spanish Slim Whitman would sing