The need for Qualifications

[Spiderman]

Several years ago I was on a selection board looking to promote an employee into a senior security post.
The sift came down to three possibles one was a 40 year old father of four who regularly cheated on his wife & bragged to his colleagues about it.
Another was a 25 year old woman with qualifications coming out of her ears, she had been with the company for two years & tried to get on every course going.
The third was a 27 year old ex soldier, he had been with the company for four years & had proved to be a very honest & reliable employee, he was my choice but I was out voted due to his lack of qualifications.
The professional course attender got the job despite my protestations that she had spent so much time studying that she actually had very little job experience.
She took up the post two weeks later (April) two weeks after that she informed the company that she was pregnant & could not be hands on with security (a job requirement) she later admitted that she knew at interview that she was pregnant but that the law was on her side.
The company suspended her pending an inquiry, she sued them & finished with a large pay out.
I was invited back to sit on the selection committee to find her replacement, I declined, saying "give it to the Soldier"

[Davycc]

Bit controversial here but when I was a lad only the Crewe de la Creme went to University. Very few working class kids ever went on to higher education let alone University. Personally I was asked to leave school as I was classed as a disruptive influence and happily left at 15. I've done okay for myself able to retire early with a reasonable income.

However today it seems every kids given right to go to University and this is an old gadger looking in but they all seem to rack up debts of £20k plus and have little job opportunity's at the end of it all. I look forward to seeing the day return where you have to serve an apprenticeship and learn a trade.

The thoughts of an old fart I await been told how wrong I am

Not at all mate. My dad was a ships carpenter (god forbid you called him a joiner) Too much emphasis is put on academical qualifications these days. There are so many young ones out there who could so easily take to a trade that doesn't need the knowledge of pye squared this and that but theres no "out" for them, they're at a loss.

Of course we need the brains but we also need the skills and I'm sorry someone who can fix my heating is as important TO ME as someone who can run up an estimate for the country's annual deficit.

[johnh]

I left school at 15 (1951) and never passed an exam in my life. I worked for the subsidiary of a multi-national company for 30 years and achieved senior manager level purely because I worked hard and achieved objectives. In all that time, I was never asked for details of my schooling. Unfortunately, I don't think this can happen for today's kids. They need to work hard and achieve objectives but if they don't have the academic qualifications to enable them to get 'on the ladder' they will not get the opportunity to prove themselves.

My 'gap year' was two years National Service. Not my decision.

[Davycc]

I left school at 15 (1951) and never passed an exam in my life. I worked for the subsidiary of a multi-national company for 30 years and achieved senior manager level purely because I worked hard and achieved objectives. In all that time, I was never asked for details of my schooling. Unfortunately, I don't think this can happen for today's kids. They need to work hard and achieve objectives but if they don't have the academic qualifications to enable them to get 'on the ladder' they will not get the opportunity to prove themselves.

My 'gap year' was two years National Service. Not my decision.

NS now there's a topic starter. I'd be all for it. My total time in fatigues lasted 18 months in the largest ever British Army Regiment... now there a quiz question.

[BigLeedsFan72]

Bit controversial here but when I was a lad only the Crewe de la Creme went to University. Very few working class kids ever went on to higher education let alone University. Personally I was asked to leave school as I was classed as a disruptive influence and happily left at 15. I've done okay for myself able to retire early with a reasonable income.

However today it seems every kids given right to go to University and this is an old gadger looking in but they all seem to rack up debts of £20k plus and have little job opportunity's at the end of it all. I look forward to seeing the day return where you have to serve an apprenticeship and learn a trade.

The thoughts of an old fart I await been told how wrong I am

They are starting to throw great money at tradies here in Australia now. They used to pay 1st years a pittance and lost most to other jobs. Now they wont get out of bed for less than $200 a day Good luck to them I say!!

[Selby White]

Bit controversial here but when I was a lad only the Crewe de la Creme went to University. Very few working class kids ever went on to higher education let alone University. Personally I was asked to leave school as I was classed as a disruptive influence and happily left at 15. I've done okay for myself able to retire early with a reasonable income.

However today it seems every kids given right to go to University and this is an old gadger looking in but they all seem to rack up debts of £20k plus and have little job opportunity's at the end of it all. I look forward to seeing the day return where you have to serve an apprenticeship and learn a trade.

The thoughts of an old fart I await been told how wrong I am

Not at all mate. My dad was a ships carpenter (god forbid you called him a joiner) Too much emphasis is put on academical qualifications these days. There are so many young ones out there who could so easily take to a trade that doesn't need the knowledge of pye squared this and that but theres no "out" for them, they're at a loss.

Of course we need the brains but we also need the skills and I'm sorry someone who can fix my heating is as important TO ME as someone who can run up an estimate for the country's annual deficit.

My story is similar to NW, left school as soon as I could and followed my parents recommendation to get an apprentiship which I did in a local factory. Did one day and night at the local technical college and along with working with real tradesmen got a great education.
Although never reached degree standard worked my way through the ranks to eventually become a department manager. Eventually took early retirement with a reasonable pension that covers my needs.
Think far too many people go to university there just isn't enough top jobs out there when they finish, so many build up debt that will never be paid off.

[Mellor]

There's no right or wrong, we're all different. Diversity is the way.

Multi tasking is the greatest skill. I envy all multi taskers. Can't be taught.

[mapperleywhite]

A thought provoking thread.....

My father, a son of Hull for those of you who haven't being paying attention , went to work for a company called Beningers (sp?) after finishing his military service after WWII. I think back then companies were obliged by the government to take on people who had been involved in the war. A manager there told him that he was much too bright/talented for the role he was undertaking and encouraged him to seek his fortunes elsewhere. That led him to taking a position at De Laval in London in the early 50's, his ability in chemistry opening the door to world of chemical engineering. He worked there until he retired in 1985 with the title of Technical Director.

All this with no degree or any formal qualifications that I'm aware of.

This might sound uncharitable and ungrateful, but he always channelled me down the route of doing a chemistry degree, a vicarious objective with hindsight. I'm more of a languages and geography person these days.....

But back to Davycc's first post. You might think that having just spent 3.5 years out of work I'd not be the best person to advise about getting new positions. But I'll throw in a few ideas at this point:

- It's always easier to find another job when you've got one already.
- Networking is important. You are more likely to find work through someone you know than responding to job adverts
- Make your CV stand out from the pile. 'I'm a proactive team player' makes hirers yawn
- I thought I knew it all about writing CVs until I had some coaching last year. Well worthwhile.

Also I think we have to be more flexible in today's world of work. 9 to 5 is less common; neither of my mid-20's kids do it, nor expect to. Do your overtime on the internet; I was looking until recently at a company that evaluated websites. Leading edge stuff out of Seattle, and they paid your fees into paypal (I have their credit card just in case)

Please pm me if you think I could help.

[Davycc]

A thought provoking thread.....

My father, a son of Hull for those of you who haven't being paying attention , went to work for a company called Beningers (sp?) after finishing his military service after WWII. I think back then companies were obliged by the government to take on people who had been involved in the war. A manager there told him that he was much too bright/talented for the role he was undertaking and encouraged him to seek his fortunes elsewhere. That led him to taking a position at De Laval in London in the early 50's, his ability in chemistry opening the door to world of chemical engineering. He worked there until he retired in 1985 with the title of Technical Director.

All this with no degree or any formal qualifications that I'm aware of.

This might sound uncharitable and ungrateful, but he always channelled me down the route of doing a chemistry degree, a vicarious objective with hindsight. I'm more of a languages and geography person these days.....

But back to Davycc's first post. You might think that having just spent 3.5 years out of work I'd not be the best person to advise about getting new positions. But I'll throw in a few ideas at this point:

- It's always easier to find another job when you've got one already.
- Networking is important. You are more likely to find work through someone you know than responding to job adverts
- Make your CV stand out from the pile. 'I'm a proactive team player' makes hirers yawn
- I thought I knew it all about writing CVs until I had some coaching last year. Well worthwhile.

Also I think we have to be more flexible in today's world of work. 9 to 5 is less common; neither of my mid-20's kids do it, nor expect to. Do your overtime on the internet; I was looking until recently at a company that evaluated websites. Leading edge stuff out of Seattle, and they paid your fees into paypal (I have their credit card just in case)

Please pm me if you think I could help.

Mapperlywhite, I am going to say or try to say something here that I hope comes out right.

The content of your post is spot on, but even more important is the air of confidence knowledge and belief that oozes from it. I don't think you would have been in the place to post that 6 months ago I'm really happy to take that advice.

I fall into the 1st bracket, already in a job (and hopefully that will continue) but if it does change I'll remember how someone kept a great outlook and got the rewards they deserved.

Thanks again.

[mapperleywhite]

A thought provoking thread.....

My father, a son of Hull for those of you who haven't been paying attention , went to work for a company called Beningers (sp?) after finishing his military service after WWII. I think back then companies were obliged by the government to take on people who had been involved in the war. A manager there told him that he was much too bright/talented for the role he was undertaking and encouraged him to seek his fortunes elsewhere. That led him to taking a position at De Laval in London in the early 50's, his ability in chemistry opening the door to world of chemical engineering. He worked there until he retired in 1985 with the title of Technical Director.

All this with no degree or any formal qualifications that I'm aware of.

This might sound uncharitable and ungrateful, but he always channelled me down the route of doing a chemistry degree, a vicarious objective with hindsight. I'm more of a languages and geography person these days.....

But back to Davycc's first post. You might think that having just spent 3.5 years out of work I'd not be the best person to advise about getting new positions. But I'll throw in a few ideas at this point:

- It's always easier to find another job when you've got one already.
- Networking is important. You are more likely to find work through someone you know than responding to job adverts
- Make your CV stand out from the pile. 'I'm a proactive team player' makes hirers yawn
- I thought I knew it all about writing CVs until I had some coaching last year. Well worthwhile.

Also I think we have to be more flexible in today's world of work. 9 to 5 is less common; neither of my mid-20's kids do it, nor expect to. Do your overtime on the internet; I was looking until recently at a company that evaluated websites. Leading edge stuff out of Seattle, and they paid your fees into paypal (I have their credit card just in case)

Please pm me if you think I could help.

Mapperlywhite, I am going to say or try to say something here that I hope comes out right.

The content of your post is spot on, but even more important is the air of confidence knowledge and belief that oozes from it. I don't think you would have been in the place to post that 6 months ago I'm really happy to take that advice.

I fall into the 1st bracket, already in a job (and hopefully that will continue) but if it does change I'll remember how someone kept a great outlook and got the rewards they deserved.

Thanks again.

Kind words Davycc indeed, thanks to you as well!

You're certainly right about the 'knowledge' of being unemployed . But the reality is sometimes you don't have a choice and you just have to keep plugging away. Rather contradicting myself but I realise I was remiss at letting my network lapse (just too proud to let them know I was struggling) and the job I now have was found on the Nottingham Evening Post website.

But, I repeat, if you think I could help, for example with a review of your CV, don't hesitate.