General Election 2019

[Selby White]

There is so much crap being spouted on this thread that there is no point trying to make a reasoned political argument. Some people might like to look up what political labels actually mean though.

Surely that is insulting to others opinions something everyone is entitled to.

Yep. And that was my opinion.

So it's your opinion that it's right to insult others opinions because they differ from yours.
It really is uncalled for but that's where we will disagree on forum ethics.

*sigh* No, it's not right to insult others' opinions, Yes, every one is entitled to one. Whose opinion was I insulting? Everyone's? Someone's? No-one's?
I doubt that we disagree on forum ethics.

"so much crap spouted on this thread"


Who was that aimed at?

Now you want me to insult someone? Can't you just leave it as a general comment?

If that's how it is meant yes.

[Selby White]

First past the post voting system is a joke.

10 people vote - 3 vote for Rigger, 3 vote for Davy and 4 vote for John. John wins with 6 against him !

Great vehicle for unrepresentative government and very convenient for maintaining a two party system.

It's a good point WK but what other options are they?

You couldn't give it to Rigger or Davy or it would be 3 against 7 which is worse than the original scenario.

Trouble with a hung parliament nothing gets done as is far more damaging than either side winning.

Proportional representation with transferable votes is a fairer system for elections. A quota, or finishing post number, is calculated in each constituency based on the number of people that have a cast a valid vote. This decides who will be elected.
Everyone voting can number their choices from 1 down to the end of the candidate list.

My example above is too basic, so instead see the following;

20 people cast valid votes
Rigger gets 6
Davy gets 4
Selby White gets 3
John gets 7

The quota could be 11 ( there is a formula for that I don’t know!).

SW is eliminated for having the lowest vote and his votes are checked to see who was the number 2 selection on his ballot papers. Let’s say they all go to Davy. The count now is as follows;

John 7
Davy 7
Rigger 6
SW eliminated

Rigger is now eliminated and his votes are checked. They split out with Davy getting 4 and John 2. The count is now;

Davy 11
John 9
Rigger eliminated
SW eliminated

Davy is elected on having reached the quota

It is complicated but the person elected is a better representation of the constituency behind him when he goes to parliament. Davy also has to consider people that are not in his party and help them, represent them and deal with them if he is going to be elected again as he knows he doesn’t have enough support from his core base to be elected.

It is fairer but it can lead to more coalition governments and that can be a challenge.

Anyway - here endeth the lesson! Hope it made sense.

Agree WK far better system

[Davycc]

First past the post voting system is a joke.

10 people vote - 3 vote for Rigger, 3 vote for Davy and 4 vote for John. John wins with 6 against him !

Great vehicle for unrepresentative government and very convenient for maintaining a two party system.

It's a good point WK but what other options are they?

You couldn't give it to Rigger or Davy or it would be 3 against 7 which is worse than the original scenario.

Trouble with a hung parliament nothing gets done as is far more damaging than either side winning.

Proportional representation with transferable votes is a fairer system for elections. A quota, or finishing post number, is calculated in each constituency based on the number of people that have a cast a valid vote. This decides who will be elected.
Everyone voting can number their choices from 1 down to the end of the candidate list.

My example above is too basic, so instead see the following;

20 people cast valid votes
Rigger gets 6
Davy gets 4
Selby White gets 3
John gets 7

The quota could be 11 ( there is a formula for that I don’t know!).

SW is eliminated for having the lowest vote and his votes are checked to see who was the number 2 selection on his ballot papers. Let’s say they all go to Davy. The count now is as follows;

John 7
Davy 7
Rigger 6
SW eliminated

Rigger is now eliminated and his votes are checked. They split out with Davy getting 4 and John 2. The count is now;

Davy 11
John 9
Rigger eliminated
SW eliminated

Davy is elected on having reached the quota

It is complicated but the person elected is a better representation of the constituency behind him when he goes to parliament. Davy also has to consider people that are not in his party and help them, represent them and deal with them if he is going to be elected again as he knows he doesn’t have enough support from his core base to be elected.

It is fairer but it can lead to more coalition governments and that can be a challenge.

Anyway - here endeth the lesson! Hope it made sense.

Agree WK far better system

But I don't want elected, it's way too hard trying to please everyone

PS. Agreed, it's a better system.

[Deleted User 3150]

If we do Brexit, my only consolation is that those who voted for it (and probably bumbling Boris), will get what they voted for.

For my part I will lose pension rights and possibly health insurance rights, having already been hit by a collapse in exchange rates

[Selby White]

If we do Brexit, my only consolation is that those who voted for it (and probably bumbling Boris), will get what they voted for.

For my part I will lose pension rights and possibly health insurance rights, having already been hit by a collapse in exchange rates

You will know more about it than me but does the healthcare issue depend on whether we come out with a deal or not ?
Thought I read the French are happy to still allow Brits who pay taxes over there to use their system.

Can understand your concern though.

If you are paid up with your National insurance over here in my opinion you certainly shouldn't lose state pension wherever you live, that is wrong.

[Deleted User 728]

PR is definitely a fairer system .. which is probably why it's never been adopted as the two major parties would lose seats.

It's a bit like when the masses of club chairpeople voted for us to have that huge points deduction, turkeys for Christmas, etc ..

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Let's all try and take a moment before posting in here please, people.

[kk white]

Proportional representation is in place here in Rep of Ireland. It can drag out the final results, sometimes goes to 10 recounts to reach the quota, but makes brilliant viewing for those with a political interest... And as mentioned earlier, is a truer reflection of the electorate.

Anyhoo, enjoy your polling today

[johnh]

PR is government by committee. Would anything ever get done? Plus the fact that in the examples above, I won on first past the post.

[Deleted User 728]

PR is government by committee. Would anything ever get done? Plus the fact that in the examples above, I won on first past the post.

Is that any worse than it swinging from one way back to the other every decade ?
Maybe a pro-active coalition would be better, leaving MPs to work on their constituencies' problems while the cabinet managed the national interests ?

I like the French system where power is given to local governors who are then voted in and out depending on whether they deliver on their promises.

[Deleted User 3289]

There is so much crap being spouted on this thread that there is no point trying to make a reasoned political argument. Some people might like to look up what political labels actually mean though.

I thought for a minute Donald Trump had joined the debate. What did they call that Greek geezer who fell in love with his own reflection? Oh yeah Narcissus.

Well its finally arrived folks. I have been conducting my own mini poll at work this morning. Not many Staff are voting but the odd one that thinks its worth it are voting Labour. The young vote is fertile territory as always for Labour, how many bother to vote will be critical for Labour in there quest for a hung parliament. I think Labour will also get quite a few female voters with the Waspi women offer cutting through. Corbyn's name is still quite toxic for any bloke above 50 up here. I get the sense that some people have spoiled their vote because they can't bring themselves to vote for any of the main parties. And then there is the people like me who have their entrenched view about the 2016 Referendum that wasn't.

I must admit i have been having nightmares about a Corbyn Sturgeon Coalition.