Is it time to move on?

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SiMamu
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Re: Is it time to move on?

Post by SiMamu »

If we sack Bielsa, we'll go down. Of that, I'm fairly confident. Even if things aren't going ideally currently, we're better off with him in charge; as has been the case for the past three and a half years.
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CanuckMightyWhite
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Re: Is it time to move on?

Post by CanuckMightyWhite »

It isn’t time to move on, but it is time for Radz and co to have a discussion with Bielsa on how this is going to get fixed and how they can support with investment in January.
Bielsa is smart and intelligent, and if articulately told to shove his stubbornness on square pegs in round hole strategy, he may be open to changing it up a bit. Meritocracy in team selection is missing - this is Bielsa’s greatest weakness.
The Fonz
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Re: Is it time to move on?

Post by The Fonz »

CanuckMightyWhite wrote:It isn’t time to move on, but it is time for Radz and co to have a discussion with Bielsa on how this is going to get fixed and how they can support with investment in January.
Bielsa is smart and intelligent, and if articulately told to shove his stubbornness on square pegs in round hole strategy, he may be open to changing it up a bit. Meritocracy in team selection is missing - this is Bielsa’s greatest weakness.
Mentioned this on another thread that I think the stubbornness statement is silly.
What do you want a manager that allows others to pick his team?
Look at all the match threads here and virtually all of us come up with different formations and teams.
Of course we are all right in our own minds and our teams will never fail.
I'm sure MB selects his team and tactics believing we can get the result. However so do other teams and sometimes they are better.
Yes he picks his own team I would expect any manager to do the same, it's never a fault.
Personally I'm unsure what other managers would achieve what he as done with our budget.
Bit like Lewis Hamilton driving one of the slower cars, he wouldn't win.
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Mr Russell
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Re: Is it time to move on?

Post by Mr Russell »

Ok first off no problem with the thread although I think your 2 games too early. The next 2 games are the most important games we will play so far this season, anything less than 4-6 points and with the following fixtures coming up after, the thread might have more justification.

There are a few things that standout

1. Injuries have curtailed our progress for virtually every game this season, if you took 5 first teamers from all the teams in the EPL I bet 16 of the clubs would be in the same position as us. This has been one of the major problems of this current campaign, hopefully this will improve once they all return.


2. Playing players out of position – a real bug bear for me unless of course you have either 11 Paul Madeley’s or Stuart Dallas’s in your team. I have coached teams (Lower Sunday football standard even though we play all ours on a Saturday afternoon) and never played players out of position, I knew who could play which positions (I’m sure Biesla knows this given he has way more experience than I could ever have). It’s the one things I think he has done wrong this season. I know the injures have not helped on this one but still play a striker as a striker, not a winger as a striker or a defender as midfielder etc etc. Joffy is a striker play him as one don’t be putting James or Harrison etc as one. Biesla’s loyalty to some players does not always help on this point either even as admirable as it is but it goes into the next point.


3. Players off form – too many players have had poor games or form so far this season, even the better players like Raphinha or Phillips have struggled in recent matches to recapture last season’s form which have made them current internationals for their countries. ( I could have named any player from the squad under this heading)

4. Transfers (Summer/January) – we know Biesla works with a smaller squad and most have asked why we didn’t strengthen our midfield and get another striker in the summer, all good questions but we all really know why and that is why I’ll be surprised if more than one comes in, in the January transfer.

5. Change the coach – No, simple as that Si said we could go down if we did and I agree with that, it would disrupt our season and relegation would be very highly likely. Biesla is a very smart man/coach he knows how it is and I do believe we will avoid the drop if he stays and finishes the job he started, keeping us in the EPL and hopefully back into Europe.

6. Who will come in and replace Biesla if he is sacked/leaves etc? This is a big problem as who can follow in his footsteps and improve this team, we can’t be looking at another Hockerday or Warnock, it will have to be another big name coach from Britain or overseas. If this is his last season as coach they should be asking him who can replace him and start the process, if he stays for another season then its business as usual.



Biesla stays until he wants to go for me, he is an outstanding coach and has taken us back to the Promised Land, he will get my full support even if point 2 annoys the hell out of me. He’s turned an average Championship team to an EPL side, he’s made struggling players and made them internationals. He has made the team better, I would struggle to find another coach who could have done this (except for other high profile names like Pep, Klopp etc).

Think of all the managers/coaches who were before him and how they mostly failed, if he had not of come here we could be still in League One or the Championship.

Now onto the next 2 games that could define our season, I hope and pray that 6 points and some breathing space is achieved or this thread will be a major talking point for the future.
Owners come and go but Leeds United will be there forever, for the fans - keep Marching on Together.
CanuckMightyWhite
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Re: Is it time to move on?

Post by CanuckMightyWhite »

The Fonz wrote:
CanuckMightyWhite wrote:It isn’t time to move on, but it is time for Radz and co to have a discussion with Bielsa on how this is going to get fixed and how they can support with investment in January.
Bielsa is smart and intelligent, and if articulately told to shove his stubbornness on square pegs in round hole strategy, he may be open to changing it up a bit. Meritocracy in team selection is missing - this is Bielsa’s greatest weakness.
Mentioned this on another thread that I think the stubbornness statement is silly.
What do you want a manager that allows others to pick his team?
Look at all the match threads here and virtually all of us come up with different formations and teams.
Of course we are all right in our own minds and our teams will never fail.
I'm sure MB selects his team and tactics believing we can get the result. However so do other teams and sometimes they are better.
Yes he picks his own team I would expect any manager to do the same, it's never a fault.
Personally I'm unsure what other managers would achieve what he as done with our budget.
Bit like Lewis Hamilton driving one of the slower cars, he wouldn't win.
I don’t believe it is silly. Everyone can see that Struijk has played better at LB than Firpo, Tyler Roberts has been given numerous chances and yet to have an impact, gaping holes in midfield when Rodrigo plays, James is not a striker etc. Etc. Yet this is persisted with. On merit, Gelhardt should be ahead of Roberts and Struijk ahead of Firpo. If it isn’t stubbornness to churn out same garbage expecting a different outcome then I don’t know what is.
Saxon
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Re: Is it time to move on?

Post by Saxon »

I'm sticking with MB.
He did what a dozen other managers tried to do and failed.
We cheered and supported him when we were winning.
We should support him when the going gets tough, and get this show back on the road.
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Another Northern Soul
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Re: Is it time to move on?

Post by Another Northern Soul »

CanuckMightyWhite wrote:
The Fonz wrote:
CanuckMightyWhite wrote:It isn’t time to move on, but it is time for Radz and co to have a discussion with Bielsa on how this is going to get fixed and how they can support with investment in January.
Bielsa is smart and intelligent, and if articulately told to shove his stubbornness on square pegs in round hole strategy, he may be open to changing it up a bit. Meritocracy in team selection is missing - this is Bielsa’s greatest weakness.
Mentioned this on another thread that I think the stubbornness statement is silly.
What do you want a manager that allows others to pick his team?
Look at all the match threads here and virtually all of us come up with different formations and teams.
Of course we are all right in our own minds and our teams will never fail.
I'm sure MB selects his team and tactics believing we can get the result. However so do other teams and sometimes they are better.
Yes he picks his own team I would expect any manager to do the same, it's never a fault.
Personally I'm unsure what other managers would achieve what he as done with our budget.
Bit like Lewis Hamilton driving one of the slower cars, he wouldn't win.
I don’t believe it is silly. Everyone can see that Struijk has played better at LB than Firpo, Tyler Roberts has been given numerous chances and yet to have an impact, gaping holes in midfield when Rodrigo plays, James is not a striker etc. Etc. Yet this is persisted with. On merit, Gelhardt should be ahead of Roberts and Struijk ahead of Firpo. If it isn’t stubbornness to churn out same garbage expecting a different outcome then I don’t know what is.
Struijk wasn't fully fit and Bielsa has also explained why Gelhardt didn't play.

Roberts proved to be the best attacker we had on the pitch!

Not 'garbage' and not stubbornness either, and we gained a point which is an improvement on last season.
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Selby White
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Re: Is it time to move on?

Post by Selby White »

CanuckMightyWhite wrote:
The Fonz wrote:
CanuckMightyWhite wrote:It isn’t time to move on, but it is time for Radz and co to have a discussion with Bielsa on how this is going to get fixed and how they can support with investment in January.
Bielsa is smart and intelligent, and if articulately told to shove his stubbornness on square pegs in round hole strategy, he may be open to changing it up a bit. Meritocracy in team selection is missing - this is Bielsa’s greatest weakness.
Mentioned this on another thread that I think the stubbornness statement is silly.
What do you want a manager that allows others to pick his team?
Look at all the match threads here and virtually all of us come up with different formations and teams.
Of course we are all right in our own minds and our teams will never fail.
I'm sure MB selects his team and tactics believing we can get the result. However so do other teams and sometimes they are better.
Yes he picks his own team I would expect any manager to do the same, it's never a fault.
Personally I'm unsure what other managers would achieve what he as done with our budget.
Bit like Lewis Hamilton driving one of the slower cars, he wouldn't win.
I don’t believe it is silly. Everyone can see that Struijk has played better at LB than Firpo, Tyler Roberts has been given numerous chances and yet to have an impact, gaping holes in midfield when Rodrigo plays, James is not a striker etc. Etc. Yet this is persisted with. On merit, Gelhardt should be ahead of Roberts and Struijk ahead of Firpo. If it isn’t stubbornness to churn out same garbage expecting a different outcome then I don’t know what is.
I can see both points but in the main agree with Fonzie, holding "stubbornness" against any manager doesn't really sit right. I can't think of one occupation including Sports where it is beneficial for a boss to to be influenced his major decisions. Once he does his time is done in my view.

I can also appreciate your points CMA but they are opinions like we all have and nothing wrong with questioning especially with good reasoning..
Putting my coaches head on I'll try to 2nd guess MB's mind and reasoning for the decisions.

The first is easy as it was explained that Struijk wasn't 100% fit and they didn't think he would last a full 90 min so was held back in reserve. Perfectly acceptable reason it that is the case. Firpo was poor and rightly taken out of the action.
I'm a big Struijk fan by the way and would have him in my line up, I differ from most though and see him ending up a top class midfielder although a superb CB. Can do for us what Declan Rice does for West Ham, nearest comparison for me is a modern day Paul Madeley.

Was surprised myself when Roberts came on rather than Gelhardt but actually using that great skill hindsight I now think it was the right decision. Why and again really rate Gelhardt but he is new and been impressive from the bench against Wolves and first half against Spurs. However that was when we were dominating possession and our opponents on the back foot, Its where his close control and dribbling skills are most useful. In the Spurs match in the 2nd half we were under the cosh and his effect on play faded as we had no outlet.
I see the situation in the Brighton game similar and Roberts for all his faults has a bigger physical presence and runs the channels well. He did that in my view and his running created our nearest opportunities on this occasion. Suppose he changed the physics of our few attacks where Gelhardt on possibly wouldn't have, we would have still had 4 attacking players who are best with the ball at their feet which doesn't happen much when we are forced to play it long.

Finally Rodrigo, I disagree that I think of all our players in the squad he's the most suited to be the central attacking midfielder . However in my view your point is valid that we do have gaps in midfield but I don't think its down to Rodrigo. One issue is when we attack we often get lots of players in attacking positions and a few in front of the ball, lose it and it gives opponents a free run at our defence. This season has been too many loose passes ,can of course argue thats down to quality.
Another issue is when our wingers don't track back immediately and dare I say on Saturday Raph was guilty on a number of occasions.
This results in other players such as CB's and DM's been dragged out of position.

All opinions though but to go back to the start I believe that the boss should make his own decisions and not be influenced by anyone, and doubt very much he will, its him that will get the blame when it all goes wrong.

I wont be not backing him anytime soon is in the best 3 managers we've had in my lifetime.
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guitarmark
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Re: Is it time to move on?

Post by guitarmark »

Somehow we have changed our pressing game and the impact of full backs pushing on and that 'overload' on the wings - Number of reasons as to why this might be the case - Injuries for starters and maybe even a wish to change the style of play a touch as far as MB is concerned

I agree that Rodrigo has a lot of potential but somehow this has not been maximised - He is not a natural 'deep' attacking midfield player in the style of Siaz or Pablo - I wonder if we might be better looking at a Liverpool 4-3-3 format - Whatever Mane, Jotta/Firminio, Salah achieve, could we replicate this with Rodrigo Bamford/Gelhardt Raphinha - With both Rodrigo and Raphinha not tied to the touch line - Play inside the channels + drop deep and wide as required - So Raphinha and Rodrigo move from a 'wide 9' to a 7 or 11, then an 8 or 10, as required - So need to be fluid/flexible - But at all times all 3 attack and interchange - I think we could -

Part of the issue with this set-up is no natural wingers as such - So less need for James/Harrison - But need 2 flying wing back/full backs and not sure we have that in the style of James (Chelsea) and A Arnold - Maybe Dallas and Shacks - Could we convert Harrison to such a role - The days appear to have gone for an old style full back like G Neville - But are modern attacking full backs converted wingers who can defend, or full backs who can attack (hope that makes sense)

I think MB needs to be more 'flexible' at times - However it does make you wonder if he has taken us as far as he can - What he has achieved with the players he has is incredible - Plus will be call it a day come the end of May - He will sooner or later
CanuckMightyWhite
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Re: Is it time to move on?

Post by CanuckMightyWhite »

Don’t get me wrong, I am behind Bielsa. He single handedly orchestrated our success over the last 3 years, but his flaws are all there to be seen and only he can rectify them.
All I said was stubbornness, others have said something similar such as “needs to be flexible”, “try something else”, “play players in their right positions”, “square pegs in round holes “.
Basically his player selection has been the issue this season, and I think time has come for Radz and co to have a chat with him on how we can stay in this division. Simple as that, can’t let it slide too much now.
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