Her Game Too

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Sniffer
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Her Game Too

Post by Sniffer »

Local news in Bristol. Her Game Too was set up by a couple of Bristol Rovers supporters. LUFC are one of 3 Premier League teams who have signed up for this and they were heavily featured.

https://www.leedsunited.com/news/commun ... r-game-too

I took a couple of pictures of TV stills but couldn't post them so included the above from the OS.
Gascoigne
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Re: Her Game Too

Post by Gascoigne »

I think they should just stick to football and give up the preaching.

Apart from that, what is 'sexism'? Who decides how it is defined and what the definition entails? It seems to be an agenda-riven concept and interpreted in one direction only.

I could co-opt their own language and argue that they are the ones being sexist by "denying male spaces" and "attempting to construct a female-privileged culture in pastimes that are naturally of interest to men."
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CheeznOnionPasty
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Re: Her Game Too

Post by CheeznOnionPasty »

Gascoigne wrote:I think they should just stick to football and give up the preaching.

Apart from that, what is 'sexism'? Who decides how it is defined and what the definition entails? It seems to be an agenda-riven concept and interpreted in one direction only.

I could co-opt their own language and argue that they are the ones being sexist by "denying male spaces" and "attempting to construct a female-privileged culture in pastimes that are naturally of interest to men."
Or they can use their very powerful and influential voice for good.

The lads don't play football 24/7 so if they want to support some causes and philanthropy around the edges why would anyone criticise that? Doing good for other people is one of the most effective ways of feeling good about yourself and managing stress - sounds like just the ticket at this stage of the season when the pressure is really on.

Whether it impacts you or not, whenever anyone makes the world even a tiny bit of a better place for someone else, isn't that a laudable thing?

Also "whataboutism" when it comes to gender issues is just disingenuous Malecowpoo, the world still favours men and holding women up is good for all of us. It's not a zero sum game. Of course there are areas of society and life where men get a tough ride and also need holding up, but we can do that without criticizing or trying to pull down efforts to hold women up too.

Really don't understand the attitude of trying to tear down efforts to make other people's lives and experiences better, much better to have the attitude that a rising tide floats all boats.
Sniffer
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Re: Her Game Too

Post by Sniffer »

Gascoigne wrote:I think they should just stick to football and give up the preaching.

Apart from that, what is 'sexism'? Who decides how it is defined and what the definition entails? It seems to be an agenda-riven concept and interpreted in one direction only.

I could co-opt their own language and argue that they are the ones being sexist by "denying male spaces" and "attempting to construct a female-privileged culture in pastimes that are naturally of interest to men."
Yeah, you're talking bullocks. And if any Mods want to delete my language please feel free. :D
Gascoigne
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Re: Her Game Too

Post by Gascoigne »

CheeznOnionPasty wrote:
Gascoigne wrote:I think they should just stick to football and give up the preaching.

Apart from that, what is 'sexism'? Who decides how it is defined and what the definition entails? It seems to be an agenda-riven concept and interpreted in one direction only.

I could co-opt their own language and argue that they are the ones being sexist by "denying male spaces" and "attempting to construct a female-privileged culture in pastimes that are naturally of interest to men."
Or they can use their very powerful and influential voice for good.

The lads don't play football 24/7 so if they want to support some causes and philanthropy around the edges why would anyone criticise that? Doing good for other people is one of the most effective ways of feeling good about yourself and managing stress - sounds like just the ticket at this stage of the season when the pressure is really on.

Whether it impacts you or not, whenever anyone makes the world even a tiny bit of a better place for someone else, isn't that a laudable thing?

Also "whataboutism" when it comes to gender issues is just disingenuous Malecowpoo, the world still favours men and holding women up is good for all of us. It's not a zero sum game. Of course there are areas of society and life where men get a tough ride and also need holding up, but we can do that without criticizing or trying to pull down efforts to hold women up too.

Really don't understand the attitude of trying to tear down efforts to make other people's lives and experiences better, much better to have the attitude that a rising tide floats all boats.
To me, this is just comes across preaching and misses the point. I also note that the usual vague bureaucratise and moral bullying is used in your post: "tear down efforts", "make the world a better place for everyone", etc. We all want to live more pleasant lives, and I agree with the adage 'good manners cost nothing', but that means working to be pleasant in personal situations, not imposing your views on people. The word 'sexism' is political and implies an agenda.

I'm not insulting you, and I do appreciate that there may be situations where people (of both sexes) may feel uncomfortable in certain situations and environments. I am sympathetic to such people, whether they are men or women, as I think people should be treated courteously, but I fundamentally object to being preached to by anybody, especially by a private business. I personally don't consider it acceptable. They should stick to football and refrain from telling me what I should think or say or do.

I also believe the issue is largely bogus. You have to consider how, why and for what purpose this elusive term, 'sexism', is defined, then applied and deployed in different situations. Words like this can be used as weapons and can be very dangerous in creating divisions between people and stirring up trouble and ill-feeling where none existed.

Sorry if you don't find my views to your liking, but I do have the right to express my objections. Somebody has to.
Sniffer wrote:Yeah, you're talking bollocks. And if any Mods want to delete my language please feel free. :D
Your attitude does you no credit, and I must also pause to reflect on the irony of being preached to like this by somebody who uses this language and speaks like this to somebody on a discussion forum, albeit under pseudonyms.

It's a bit hypocritical. I will remember this for the future as I encounter you on the Forum and I will ensure this exchange is quoted back to you.
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Another Northern Soul
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Re: Her Game Too

Post by Another Northern Soul »

Jessica Furness, one of the founders of Her Game Too and an avid Leeds United supporter, said: "As the Co-founder and Leeds United ambassador of Her Game Too, this partnership means the world to me! It was always a personal aim of mine to see this happen since we started the campaign last year, football is most certainly a game for all but sadly sexism is still rife in the beautiful game.

“Since a young age I've been a hugely passionate Leeds fan but have always felt out of place as a female in a male-dominated game. I'm really looking forward to working with the club on promoting equality, raising awareness on sexism and empowering women in football. We want to make their experiences as enjoyable and safe as possible, not just for the female Leeds fans of today but also tomorrow.

“The club have been amazing and so eager with getting this partnership over the line in the best way possible from start to finish and I am so grateful for that. I can't wait to see what we can achieve together. Marching On Together, no matter what gender you are - it's Her Game Too."


Well I for one have zero issues with any of that.

Sad to see misogyny still around on a forum like this :thumbdown:
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SiMamu
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Re: Her Game Too

Post by SiMamu »

Gascoigne wrote:I think they should just stick to football and give up the preaching.

Apart from that, what is 'sexism'? Who decides how it is defined and what the definition entails? It seems to be an agenda-riven concept and interpreted in one direction only.

I could co-opt their own language and argue that they are the ones being sexist by "denying male spaces" and "attempting to construct a female-privileged culture in pastimes that are naturally of interest to men."
As in the agenda of equality? How evil of them.

Dress it up all you want, Gascoigne. This is an incredibly misogynistic viewpoint. Even your 'I could co-opt their own language...' point is rife with a dislike of women, all whilst you try, and fail, to flip things around. Many women like football too and don't want to feel excluded and antagonised, with constant questions over whether they actually know any of the players for instance, and so because of that they want to 'construct a female-privileged culture'? Ridiculous.
"A man with new ideas is a madman. Until his ideas triumph."
Sniffer
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Re: Her Game Too

Post by Sniffer »

Gascoigne wrote:
CheeznOnionPasty wrote:
Gascoigne wrote: Sorry if you don't find my views to your liking, but I do have the right to express my objections. Somebody has to.
Sniffer wrote:Yeah, you're talking bollocks. And if any Mods want to delete my language please feel free. :D
Your attitude does you no credit, and I must also pause to reflect on the irony of being preached to like this by somebody who uses this language and speaks like this to somebody on a discussion forum, albeit under pseudonyms.

It's a bit hypocritical. I will remember this for the future as I encounter you on the Forum and I will ensure this exchange is quoted back to you.
My apologies for the language. I'd had a couple of sherbets and my emotions got the better of me. Clearly I meant that you were talking misogynistic nonsense. Feel free to bring that up in the future.

As for the bit I've highlighted in bold, no, someone didn't have to.

I look forward to less inflammatory discussions on other topics another time.
Gascoigne
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Re: Her Game Too

Post by Gascoigne »

I think I did overreact further up the thread to the dismissive comment about my own comments, but on the other hand, I prefer to consider what people say and respond by giving my opinions as thoughtfully as possible, and it annoys me when others don't meet the same standard. At the risk of sounding preachy myself, I hope I would never just dismiss what somebody says as 'nonsense' or whatever, but not one of us is perfect.

Somebody above lauds equality and speaks of it in almost religious terms as a fine and noble aim, as if it is beyond debate. But even the most noble intentions are not beyond rational question and discussion. In my view, equality is not a good objective for society, and I do not accept that the pursuit of equality is always as noble as it may seem. In some cases, the motivations are malignant and not noble at all.

If you tell me, or imply or insinuate, that I am 'sexist', I am going to be somewhat offended, even if (as here) you fail to define what you mean by 'sexism'. The reason I am offended is not because I think there is anything wrong with being sexist, or racist, or whatever, rather it's because I recognise - I see instinctively - that there is an agenda behind what you are doing, which is essentially a deep desire you have to tell other people what to do, to lecture to us like we're naughty primary school children, and invent problems and stir up trouble when there is no reason or cause for it.

Until 'Her Game Too', I was used to seeing women at Leeds United matches. I can tell you they were there in the 1980s, in the crowd. Yes, real, actual women! I know, it's shocking. Now you have turned what is a matter of utter mundanity and insignificance into some sort political or social cause. There are women sports journalists. There are lady corporate officers at clubs. There are female stewards. There are women everywhere. Until now, I had not even thought about it, because there is no need to give thought to it. If somebody is rude to somebody else, whether a man or a woman, then rudeness is rudeness. How does it become a massive social issue that we all need to be lectured about, as if we're little children? Yes, it's her game too - but we already knew that and it never had to be articulated because it has never been an issue, except for a few idiots, for whom there are already civil and criminal laws and other mechanisms such as informal scolding and social disapproval.

It is quite likely that I am sexist by the standards being set for me here, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. I don't mind women pursuing careers, once they have had children. It's natural for women to have children. That's their biological imposition. Furthermore, I can't really take a woman in authority completely seriously. That's because I am a man. It's just human nature. We can pretend otherwise and affect to be more refined about it, but the problem with pretending is that a pretence is a pretence. What you're doing is creating an artificial situation that can't hold. There will be exceptions. Now and then, a woman will come along who doesn't want children and just wants to freely pursue her own visions and ambitions. OK, fair enough. There may even be a lady footballer who is good enough to play in the Championship or Premier League. I don't mind, as long as it is acknowledged that she is one of the few exceptions that demonstrate the rule.

I do try to treat people politely and with decency. I don't always succeed because, like you, I am less than perfect - in my case, significantly short of perfect. Very, very, very far from perfect is what would describe me. If God does exist, I'll need a very good QC when I die to make my eternal case. But I do have a decent heart and I think that should be enough. I will not be grist to your mill. I will not be lectured to by you and others, for your sinister social engineering, your slimy little agenda.

More to the point, nobody has the right to demand that you or I adhere to equality and treat people equally. Apart from anything else, people are not inherently equal, nor are people equal in matters of practical reality. I am not going to be the next face of GQ. That's because I am ugly. There are, however, men who could be the face of GQ. They are superior to me in that respect. An example of inequality.

Now, I do hope there are no uglist people on this Forum. As well as watching your pronouns, you need to ensure that you don't offend me on account of my ugly visage. Uglism is a terrible form of prejudice. Ugly people like me deserve to be treated equally. That's why I've complained to GQ magazine and demanded that they carry my Ugly Mug on their front cover as part of a campaign of raising awareness about the bigotry faced by ugly men...blah, blah.....

See the problem?

Some people are thick, some people are fat, some people are disabled, some people are black, some people are gay, some people are Leeds United supporters. All of these people deserve kindness for their afflictions and the problems and challenges in their lives, and I would be the first to condemn bullying and other unpleasant behaviour - and I do mean that - but demanding that you or I treat people equally is an infringement on our basic dignity and autonomy and our ability to make our own decisions and control our own lives. Life is unfair.

Moderator Message:
Gascoigne please ensure you read to post by SelbyWhite below Im adding this comment to inform you if you continue with posting containing content that you are aware will offend you will be banned from the forum
- Davycc
Last edited by Davycc on 18 May 2022, 07:19, edited 4 times in total.
Reason: Two words changed, replaced with its correct saying in today's wording, thanks and MOT!
marziale
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Re: Her Game Too

Post by marziale »

This is the output of a well-educated sexist person whose ideas have been overtaken by changes in society. His two ideas here embody the sexism he claims not to know the meaning of.

1. It's natural for women to have children. That's their biological imposition.
2. I can't really take a woman in authority completely seriously. That's because I am a man. It's just human nature.

1. Essentially embodies his general idea about what the place and role of women in society should be. And it is prehistoric. It isn’t natural for women to have children and millions decide they won’t. So it is not even an imposition. No doubt he would argue against the freedom of women to choose because of his sexist view of the world.
2. This is another prehistoric and sexist view. How does he square it with the role the Queen has played in post-war UK? and I am anti-monarchism. Or with other leading women in Politics, Business, the Arts, Sports, Media. Would you reject Gabby Logan as a major voice in sports broadcasting for decades, to name but one admirable lady with strong LUFC connections? Or Thatcher (blast her memory) in Politics, etc. He needs to correct That’s because I am a man to That’s because I am a sexist.

On the subject of sexism there is plenty of agreement on the meaning of the word, it’s just that he won’t accept it, another thing entirely. Sexism is about treating people unfairly, in terms of equal opportunities and life chances, on the the grounds of their sex.

Doesn’t it make him happy to see all those girls and women in the stands at Elland Road, participating in the spectacle, enjoying supporting their team? For me it’s amazing, and I can compare it in my mind’s eye with what it was like in the 1950s, I am that old.

Wakey-wakey mate! It’s time to wake up and smell the coffee. It tastes great!
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