Scott Wootton signs from Man Utd

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Re: Scott Wootton signs from Man Utd

Postby Deleted User 2 » 21 Aug 2013, 13:53

The point I was arguing profusely was not the comment about the deal being 3 years in itself, but the affirmation that this agent is one of others who have (exact quote) "done a much better job protecting their clients interests than Harvey/Haigh whoever have done in protecting the interests of Leeds United.". In the absence of further information about the terms of the contract, defining "the interests of Leeds United" and how well they have been protected is largely arbitrary. If the length of contract is detrimental, maybe he's being paid less than he would have been if he'd accepted 4 years, maybe we've imposed a clause that says he gets an automatic extension if he plays a certain number of games (which might prove he has a future, is considered good enough at the end of the season, etc.). We just don't know. There was an, I thought rather obvious, subtext of doubt about the abilities of the club executives to negotiate such a deal effectively and to the club's benefit, and I think this implication has been made for longer and with much more gusto than that which I've used in this topic, so if anyone wants to see it as a sign of something personal, it's their choice entirely, but it would not be in tune with my intentions.
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Re: Scott Wootton signs from Man Utd

Postby isrodger » 21 Aug 2013, 13:55

SMorientes wrote:But Murphy's already 23? He'll be 26 when his contract expires, surely?


Your right I stand corrected.
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Re: Scott Wootton signs from Man Utd

Postby Cymru White » 21 Aug 2013, 20:01

Not exactly the grizzled veteran that was going to organise/sort out the defence that I was hoping for, and possibly need if we are not going leak goals this season like we did last season, a good signing however and BMcD is building something here, not sure it's something that's going to get us promoted this season, but early days yet.

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Re: Scott Wootton signs from Man Utd

Postby isrodger » 21 Aug 2013, 20:30

Cymru White wrote:Not exactly the grizzled veteran that was going to organise/sort out the defence that I was hoping for, and possibly need if we are not going leak goals this season like we did last season, a good signing however and BMcD is building something here, not sure it's something that's going to get us promoted this season, but early days yet.

MOT


No he isn't - but if we had signed greer for instance, would he be over the hill next season. He certainly would need replacing if we got into the premiership. Regardless of this signing I would like to see BMc bring in a specialist defensive coach in the meantime.
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Re: Scott Wootton signs from Man Utd

Postby SiMamu » 21 Aug 2013, 20:50

isrodger wrote:
Cymru White wrote:Not exactly the grizzled veteran that was going to organise/sort out the defence that I was hoping for, and possibly need if we are not going leak goals this season like we did last season, a good signing however and BMcD is building something here, not sure it's something that's going to get us promoted this season, but early days yet.

MOT


No he isn't - but if we had signed greer for instance, would he be over the hill next season. He certainly would need replacing if we got into the premiership. Regardless of this signing I would like to see BMc bring in a specialist defensive coach in the meantime.

I'd like for Radebe to be added to the coaching staff.
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Re: Scott Wootton signs from Man Utd

Postby Pecky10 » 21 Aug 2013, 21:13

isrodger wrote:[Regardless of this signing I would like to see BMc bring in a specialist defensive coach in the meantime.


There's a phrase (warning to children) that says you can't polish a turd. If a defender (whoever he is) can't track a striker and / or win a header then there's only do much you can do with coaching ;)

It's interesting that Stuart Pearce - who most would acknowledge knew a thing of two about defending ;) - didn't play Mr Lees as a centre-half, preferring him in a midfield role not dissimilar to that occupied largely by Green and latterly by Austin.

I'm not sure what the answer is to our problems but my gut still says an experienced Centre-half who can organise the back line and set-pieces would be worth his weight in gold, even if he played for one season only, if the experience was passed onto our current crop and might rub off on those who need it most - developing the likes of Lees has to be worth the investment of an older, decent centre-half in itself?
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Re: Scott Wootton signs from Man Utd

Postby SMorientes » 21 Aug 2013, 21:27

Pecky10 wrote:
isrodger wrote:[Regardless of this signing I would like to see BMc bring in a specialist defensive coach in the meantime.


There's a phrase (warning to children) that says you can't polish a turd. If a defender (whoever he is) can't track a striker and / or win a header then there's only do much you can do with coaching ;)

It's interesting that Stuart Pearce - who most would acknowledge knew a thing of two about defending ;) - didn't play Mr Lees as a centre-half, preferring him in a midfield role not dissimilar to that occupied largely by Green and latterly by Austin.

I'm not sure what the answer is to our problems but my gut still says an experienced Centre-half who can organise the back line and set-pieces would be worth his weight in gold, even if he played for one season only, if the experience was passed onto our current crop and might rub off on those who need it most - developing the likes of Lees has to be worth the investment of an older, decent centre-half in itself?



I feel like you ended up contradicting your 'can't polish a turd' sentiment. Kisnorbo being around should've helped development of our young defenders in that respect, his ability to stick his head under anything that came near our box was brilliant, and he was experienced in marshalling a backline. It didn't seem to though. I'm not arguing that getting in someone to do that job'd be a bad idea, just that I'm not sure it'd rub off and help the youngsters that much.
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Re: Scott Wootton signs from Man Utd

Postby isrodger » 21 Aug 2013, 21:33

Pecky10 wrote:
isrodger wrote:[Regardless of this signing I would like to see BMc bring in a specialist defensive coach in the meantime.


There's a phrase (warning to children) that says you can't polish a turd. If a defender (whoever he is) can't track a striker and / or win a header then there's only do much you can do with coaching ;)

It's interesting that Stuart Pearce - who most would acknowledge knew a thing of two about defending ;) - didn't play Mr Lees as a centre-half, preferring him in a midfield role not dissimilar to that occupied largely by Green and latterly by Austin.

I'm not sure what the answer is to our problems but my gut still says an experienced Centre-half who can organise the back line and set-pieces would be worth his weight in gold, even if he played for one season only, if the experience was passed onto our current crop and might rub off on those who need it most - developing the likes of Lees has to be worth the investment of an older, decent centre-half in itself?


To agree with your point I always remember when oleary came to Leeds to play, he had the immediate effect on the defense you highlight, pity he only lasted ten games. However, I remember listening to john Hollins, who had experienced close hand george Graham's coaching of the arsenal back 4, he eulogised over his coaching methods. Look how Tony Adams came on under his guidance, and although our football was terrible under george our defense was never better, radabe all of a sudden was world class, wether all looked dependable. Having said that I do think we could do with a big lump like Robert molenar!!
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Re: Scott Wootton signs from Man Utd

Postby SMorientes » 21 Aug 2013, 21:41

Anyone know any forest or peterborough fans likely to give a sensible opinion? I feel like they'd have a far better/more relevant impression of wootton than scum fans.
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Re: Scott Wootton signs from Man Utd

Postby Sheepy » 22 Aug 2013, 02:23

I don't think a specialised coach is the answer, it might help, but I think sometimes certain players play better with other players and worse with other different players - if that makes sense?!

As an example, Peter Haddock played centre half for us under Billy and was probably an average defender, however, when he played under Wilko alongside Chris Fairclough he was absolutely superb. It was probably a bit to do with Wilko, but Haddock and Fairclough worked well as a partnership. That's what I reckon anyway.
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