Leeds United's Top 100 players. Do you agree?

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Malcolm Stark
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Re: Leeds United's Top 100 players. Do you agree?

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Aces wrote:
Malcolm Stark wrote:I read his autobiography, Leeds' Rolls-Royce, he was probably my favourite Leeds player from that great era. "Never a substitute", Sniffer said of him. He made the team more of a team. They really missed him for that home game against West Brom, I reckon. Would they have lost with him playing? I don't think so. Even with Tinkler's decisions.
He always stood out for me personally, he was tall and elegant, easy on the ball, extremely fit and a touch of aggression, as we're all the players of that great Leeds side. He never seemed to nail a position down, but I think that's because all the other players were pretty much inked in to each of their positions. An awesome talent that's for sure.
A harsh, but fair statement, given the reputation both players have as Leeds United players. Leeds United legends, indeed.

I'd like to kill that, right now. For me, the best Leeds United side, EVER, was between 1969 and 1973. The "Four Seasons", I call them. Leeds won the title in 1969, but before Allan Clarke joined, and then they won the title, again, in 74, but after Jack Charlton retired. The best Leeds United eleven, ever, was obviously (Sprake), Reaney, Cooper, Bremner, Charlton, Hunter, Lorimer, Clarke, Jones, Giles, Gray; right?

Firstly, during the two title winning seasons of 69 and 74, Eddie Gray played forty games while Paul Madeley played seventy games. Both players scored five goals over those two seasons, even though Madeley was a defender and Gray was an attacking midfielder.

During the "Four Seasons", 1969-73, when Leeds won nothing except an FA Cup and an Fairs Cup title, despite outplaying Chelsea for most of the Final, and also being cheated by the ref in the 73 ECWC Final, they were the best team in England, by far. Leeds won 93 First Division matches between 69-73, seven more than either Liverpool or Arsenal. Leeds scored 300 First Division goals between 69-73, 55 more than Derby County. Leeds lost only thirty First Division matches between 69-73, five fewer than Liverpool. Leeds gained 231 First Division points between 69-73, at an average of 58 points per season, a First Division record, and an average of 82.5 points per season with a 3 points for a win system. Liverpool gained twelve less points than Leeds, during the Four Seasons, just 219 points.

Over those Four Seasons, the greatest four seasons of any team in Football League First Division history, Paul Madeley played 156 First Division matches, at an average of 39 per season, while Eddie Gray played only 90 matches, at an average of 22.5 games per season. Forgetting my tactical reasons for including Madeley at 11, instead of Gray, there are clear statistical reasons why Madeley should be in an all-time Leeds eleven, ahead of Gray.

Okay, we all know about Gray tiptoeing round Burnley's defence to score "the Goal of the Century", and how he was man of the match in the 1970 Cup Final, before getting a couple of knocks in the replay from Hutchinson and Harris, and proving mostly ineffective. It's also easy to forget how mediocre he was in most league games after 1971, and how, in the 1973 FA Cup Final he never once got behind, around, inside, or past Dick Malone, the weak link of Sunderland's team, and was taken off.

Fact is, most Leeds fans of my era, and before, put Gray automatically in the 11 spot, but Madeley was a much better all-round player, during the very greatest of years in Leeds United's history. He never, ever had a bad game for Leeds, and when he finally did, against Liam Brady in the late Seventies, he decided it was time to go.

Paul Madeley is in that all-time team on merit. :thumbup:
Malcolm Stark
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Re: Leeds United's Top 100 players. Do you agree?

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Malcolm Stark wrote:
My team would be:

Martyn/ Harvey

Reaney, Charlton, Charles, Cooper

Lorimer/ Currie, Bremner, Giles, Madeley

Clarke, Jones.
This is my all-time Leeds United team, once again. :)
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banksy
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Re: Leeds United's Top 100 players. Do you agree?

Post by banksy »

Aces wrote:I don't know if it was the fans who voted for this top 100 or if the list was issued by the club.
probably from the club where's bite yer ligs Vinny? :clap:
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NottinghamWhite
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Re: Leeds United's Top 100 players. Do you agree?

Post by NottinghamWhite »

Malcolm

The team you quoted earlier namely Sprake, Reaney, Cooper, Bremner, Charlton, Hunter, Lorimer, Clarke, Jones, Giles and Gray did you know that team that everyone remembers only played a handful of games, not too sure the exact number but 6 springs to mind. Yet it's the one Leeds team everyone remembers.
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Re: Leeds United's Top 100 players. Do you agree?

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Malcolm Stark wrote:
My team would be:

Martyn/ Harvey

Reaney, Charlton, Charles, Cooper

Lorimer/ Currie, Bremner, Giles, Madeley

Clarke, Jones.
Very surprised to not see Norman Hunter in that team. He played 679 games for Leeds and had it not been for Bobby Moore, he would have played considerably more games for England than the 28 caps he was awarded.
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johnh
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Re: Leeds United's Top 100 players. Do you agree?

Post by johnh »

NottinghamWhite wrote:
Malcolm Stark wrote:
My team would be:

Martyn/ Harvey

Reaney, Charlton, Charles, Cooper

Lorimer/ Currie, Bremner, Giles, Madeley

Clarke, Jones.
Very surprised to not see Norman Hunter in that team. He played 679 games for Leeds and had it not been for Bobby Moore, he would have played considerably more games for England than the 28 caps he was awarded.

The solution is: Hunter in the back four and Charles at centre forward instead of Jones.
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Re: Leeds United's Top 100 players. Do you agree?

Post by isrodger »

Malcolm Stark wrote:
Malcolm Stark wrote:
My team would be:

Martyn/ Harvey

Reaney, Charlton, Charles, Cooper

Lorimer/ Currie, Bremner, Giles, Madeley

Clarke, Jones.
This is my all-time Leeds United team, once again. :)
It all about opinions - and there is no right or wrong Malcolm - BUT YOU ARE WRONG - how can you leave out eddie gray!!! Also Hunter. And as for Jones great servant, but I actually think probably Jordan even the likes of Viduka & Haisslebank were better players. For me its Charles up top- Hunter in his place, with Gray in for Madeley - NO OFFENCE PAL!!
Malcolm Stark
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Re: Leeds United's Top 100 players. Do you agree?

Post by Malcolm Stark »

isrodger wrote:
Malcolm Stark wrote:
Malcolm Stark wrote:
My team would be:

Martyn/ Harvey

Reaney, Charlton, Charles, Cooper

Lorimer/ Currie, Bremner, Giles, Madeley

Clarke, Jones.
This is my all-time Leeds United team, once again. :)
It all about opinions - and there is no right or wrong Malcolm - BUT YOU ARE WRONG - how can you leave out eddie gray!!! Also Hunter. And as for Jones great servant, but I actually think probably Jordan even the likes of Viduka & Haisslebank were better players. For me its Charles up top- Hunter in his place, with Gray in for Madeley - NO OFFENCE PAL!!
No offence taken at all, ISRodger. You're all Leeds fans, and if you say Hunter should play instead of Jones, with John Charles up front, then I'll accept that. Leaving out Hunter was difficult, but I went with Allan Clarke's own words about him and Jones being the best partnership in football. I believe there haven't been many better attacking partnerships in World football history than Clarke and Jones at their best. But John Charles was certainly superior to Jones. Okay, I'll put Hunter in for Jones, with Charles up top.

However, you ask how I can leave out Eddie Gray. Well, we can agree, surely, that the seven seasons 1968-75 were the most successful in Leeds United's history? They won nothing before 1968, and only one trophy after 1975, so that has to be so. I ask how I can pick a player who played in less than half their games during that period? I know he was injured most of the time, but I've got to go on his influence on Leeds' success, and that is less than 50%. Madeley was far more a key player in Leeds' success, so I picked him. That's it.
Last edited by Malcolm Stark on 04 Sep 2013, 15:32, edited 1 time in total.
Malcolm Stark
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Re: Leeds United's Top 100 players. Do you agree?

Post by Malcolm Stark »

NottinghamWhite wrote:
Malcolm Stark wrote:
My team would be:

Martyn/ Harvey

Reaney, Charlton, Charles, Cooper

Lorimer/ Currie, Bremner, Giles, Madeley

Clarke, Jones.
Very surprised to not see Norman Hunter in that team. He played 679 games for Leeds and had it not been for Bobby Moore, he would have played considerably more games for England than the 28 caps he was awarded.
Sorted. Hunter is in. Jones is substitute.

Bobby Moore was picked far too long for England, after the 70 World Cup, in my opinion. If Sir Alf hadn't been so sentimental, and noticed the decline in form that Bobby showed even for West Ham, and picked Hunter or Todd alongside McFarland after the 72 Euros, we'd have qualified for the 74 Finals, I'm certain.

I know Bobby played many good games for England, but I just don't get this reverence towards his defensive majesty. In 1966, West Ham conceded 84 league goals, and by the early 70s, with Frank Lampard, Billy Bonds and Tommy Taylor around him, Moore was actually the WEAK LINK in West Ham's defence. Watch him falling over and sitting on his arse after being turned inside out by Southampton's Tommy Jenkins.

After he lost the West Ham captaincy in January 71, after that Blackpool nightclub incident, he became bolshy and awkward in the dressing room, and really, he coasted to 100 caps on pure sentimentality, because he wasn't in the same class as Hunter, Todd or Peter Simpson.

There, I just did it. I defiled a Saint.
Malcolm Stark
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Re: Leeds United's Top 100 players. Do you agree?

Post by Malcolm Stark »

Oh, and just one more thing about Mick Jones: he was your top goal-scorer when you won the title in both 69 and in 74, so I'll never be putting Jordan, Hasselbaink or Viduka above him.
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