Here we go again.

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Re: Here we go again.

Postby Nic » 01 Oct 2013, 10:53

Wilfred Martin wrote:For those reasons, despite the frustrating performances during September, I don't wish to judge GFH or BMcD at this time. They are in a position that they inherited, where they can’t clear out the unwanted players until the end of the season and the only ways of generating income rather than investment is through ticket sales and commercial activity (or selling our “star” players – something they seem, thankfully, reluctant to do). It’s a “catch-22” situation.

I genuinely believe that success this season for BMcD will be "making a silk purse out of a sow's ear", keeping us in the top half of the table if possible and developing the youngsters as much as he can, so that they can slot into the first team when required, by next season. Hopefully, Mowatt, Poleon and Dawson at least, will progress to become regulars. I think that most fans on this forum (not all, admittedly) would be content this season just seeing us develop an entertaining style of play without the fear of relegation appearing like last season.

What's missing from this theory is the ability to pay substantial transfer and/or signing on fees, if required, to bring in those 5 or 6 "key" players next season. The club will still need to sell enough shares to generate new investment for this. It's a challenging balancing act!


Some good opinions there. It does look like its a waiting game, let those players contracts expire, develop the youngsters into 1st team regulars or sell on, and be in a position to be able to take on 5 or 6 key players as we'll have the money for their wages. We need to give BMcD time rather than a knee jerk reaction because of some bad results. Even though we've been losing the team have showed some good play, I just think they are suffering from lack of confidence at times. People seem to be moaning for lack of signings because we are not firing on all cylinders - there wouldn't be talk of this if RMcC had continued scoring most games and we were in the top 6.
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Re: Here we go again.

Postby isrodger » 01 Oct 2013, 11:22

Nic wrote:
isrodger wrote:As for your comments re the fans putting their in their pockets. I liken it to this - I bought a pub - it was run down, I refurbished it, sorted out the pricing, put a bit of free food on, got the appropriate management and bar staff in. The punters responded and turnover is significantly up - I can probably put prices up now as I am serving up a significantly better product. I didn't expect the punters to drink sub standard ale, served by ugly bar staff, in a tatty environment whilst I saved up enough money from the cash flow, to refurbish / decorate it room by room. GFH did six months due diligence on the company they knew about the £16m whole in the cash-flow left by bates, they were told by Warnock that the club need needed a good three quality additions which would cost in excess of £5m and their wages would be beyond present levels. They can also see their competitive set are spending significantly more than they are committing to. If they get us into the premiership, they will doubtless hike up prices and sell us for £100m plus. They and not going to turn round to all the season ticket holders and give them £1,000 each and say thanks for supporting us on the journey. Its their investment, they deliver on the pitch and we as punters will roll up & support; and then they get their big pay day. Its a can be virtuous circle & self funding, but it starts with major investment.


I've seen plenty of local pubs, bought up, done up, and become soulless entities that only get packed on a friday/saturday night as people make their way to town and desolate the rest of the time. Maybe you'd prefer us to now be called Red Bull United?


No I don't any owners Pubs/football teams are only custodians of the business the people that matter most are the punters. The way you run the business needs to be with them in mind. GFH are doing an average job & the fans are responding accordingly (they are a huge plus versus bates). I am all for building long term but that assumes players and fans will stay with you. The fans unfortunately have run out of patience; and I fear that without a step change in ambition the likes of Mowatt, Byram will go the same way as Snodgrass, Gradel etc and find a club that matches their ambition if and when the opportunity arises.
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Re: Here we go again.

Postby Deleted User 2 » 01 Oct 2013, 11:29

isrodger wrote:The fans unfortunately have run out of patience

I disagree, and I know you will disagree with my disagreement, but I haven't run out of patience, and I know loads of people who haven't and aren't issuing ultimatums, far from it. And I'm not just talking about friends that I see around games regularly, who might be friends through the nature of fact that we generally see things the same way, but even through the bad spell of the last 2-3 weeks, most of what I read on social media for example is quite encouraging. Apart from the naming of players that might fill in the gaps we're missing (striker, winger) - calls to which GFH have genuinely responded, and it is clear we are looking at bringing someone in - most of the reactions are fairly realistic and recognise the current pad spell for example is entirely down current team not even living up to their own standard, rather than a stagnation in the club as a whole.
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Re: Here we go again.

Postby SMorientes » 01 Oct 2013, 11:49

The impatient are always far more vociferous than the patient
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Re: Here we go again.

Postby Nic » 01 Oct 2013, 12:03

Bogdan wrote:
isrodger wrote:The fans unfortunately have run out of patience

I disagree, and I know you will disagree with my disagreement, but I haven't run out of patience, and I know loads of people who haven't and aren't issuing ultimatums, far from it. And I'm not just talking about friends that I see around games regularly, who might be friends through the nature of fact that we generally see things the same way, but even through the bad spell of the last 2-3 weeks, most of what I read on social media for example is quite encouraging. Apart from the naming of players that might fill in the gaps we're missing (striker, winger) - calls to which GFH have genuinely responded, and it is clear we are looking at bringing someone in - most of the reactions are fairly realistic and recognise the current pad spell for example is entirely down current team not even living up to their own standard, rather than a stagnation in the club as a whole.


Announcements to secure a quality loan striker are encouraging, and the fans are still hopeful - look at tonights game, once the announcement was made that "enquiries were been made" tickets started selling quickly :D

Some vocal fans are not happy (like posts of "relegation here we come" on lufc facebook pages) but I think the vast majority see us as improving and realistic enough to know there will not be a sea change.
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Re: Here we go again.

Postby Morphoolu » 01 Oct 2013, 12:08

Bogdan wrote:
isrodger wrote:The fans unfortunately have run out of patience

I disagree, and I know you will disagree with my disagreement, but I haven't run out of patience, and I know loads of people who haven't and aren't issuing ultimatums, far from it. And I'm not just talking about friends that I see around games regularly, who might be friends through the nature of fact that we generally see things the same way, but even through the bad spell of the last 2-3 weeks, most of what I read on social media for example is quite encouraging. Apart from the naming of players that might fill in the gaps we're missing (striker, winger) - calls to which GFH have genuinely responded, and it is clear we are looking at bringing someone in - most of the reactions are fairly realistic and recognise the current pad spell for example is entirely down current team not even living up to their own standard, rather than a stagnation in the club as a whole.


:geek: Note to self: Bogdan citing social media as evidence to support an arguement, wasn't this one of the signs of the coming apocalypse (according to wikipedia, the source of all reliable and infallible knowledge) :lol:
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Re: Here we go again.

Postby SMorientes » 01 Oct 2013, 12:40

Morphoolu wrote: :geek: Note to self: Bogdan citing social media as evidence to support an arguement, wasn't this one of the signs of the coming apocalypse (according to wikipedia, the source of all reliable and infallible knowledge) :lol:


I'd say using social media is the most appropriate source in an argument about common social opinions. Facebook and Twitter may be full of garbage, but it's garbage that represents what people are thinking and expressing.
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Re: Here we go again.

Postby NottinghamWhite » 01 Oct 2013, 13:09

Wilfred Martin wrote:According to information on other websites, Ashdown, Cairns, Nathan & Lewis Turner, Diouf, Norris, Varney, Drury, Green, Pugh, & Brown all have contracts that expire next summer. That's an awful lot of wages spent on players who are mostly not first team regulars under McDermott, which will be off our books by next summer. (I still don’t understand how Warnock was allowed to get away with giving Brown enough substitute appearances to trigger a contract


Thanks for the above I must admit to wondering when certain players contracts end. At a guesstimate I am assuming there is something akin to around 100k a week tied up in players that Diouf aside are no more the squad players. I agree it was a joke Brown getting a seasons extension all because of a few substitute appearances.
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Re: Here we go again.

Postby Deleted User 2 » 01 Oct 2013, 13:33

Ah, the old Michael Brown scapegoat argument is back. :D Digging deeper than the stereotypical "Warnock gifted his lovechild some extra money" arguments, there are a few inconvenient facts. One is the fact that he was on highly reduced wages last summer when he was kept on. Secondly, the "few substitute appearances" were actually 23 starts! Thirdly, he started because he was one of the most consistent players last season. Which is different from saying he is an amazing or complex player, I'm not suggesting that at all, but we knew what we got from him and when he was on the pitch he did his job a lot more dutifully than many others. Also, out of that list and the players who are only kept as backup, he is actually nearest to actually playing games. In an extensive list of midfield names, he still shows up on the bench, unlike the Turners, Norris & Pugh. Some would say that means McDermott actually thinks he may still be of some use. But, hey, much easier to just shout about how he's only here because of favouritism from the manager who didn't sign him in the first place, eh?

Danny Pugh, remember when we signed him permanently for what was, for us, at the time, quite a sizeable fee, and, by some accounts, one of the highest wages at the club? When's the last time he played and you thought "hey, that's a handy player right there, I'm glad he's in our squad"? Yet how many times has anyone moaned about Grayson lumbering us with this guy? Remember Ramon Nunez getting a 4 year contract? It's annoying when non-Warnock managers get things wrong, but we somehow manage to move on from them.
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Re: Here we go again.

Postby Wilfred Martin » 01 Oct 2013, 14:40

Bogdan wrote:Ah, the old Michael Brown scapegoat argument is back. :D Digging deeper than the stereotypical "Warnock gifted his lovechild some extra money" arguments, there are a few inconvenient facts.


I didn't wish to cast any aspersions about Brown's relationship with Warnock. Wasn't he signed by Grayson, not Warnock? I merely wished to point out that, if his contract extension was imminent to being triggered by another substitute appearance and the club new what the total cost of that would be, was it good judgement to play him & trigger that clause, given that he is now 36? Even on reduced wages, I suspect that they will still be substantial. I seem to remember a similar situation arising with Eirik Baake some years ago, when, short of cash, we made a different choice. The Brown issue is small compared with the totality of my comment that we should be considerably better off to fund netter recruits at the end of the season, as long as we maintain our current league status and the goodwill of our very loyal supporters.
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