Saiz should be sold now if he's guilty of spitting. Discuss.

[Another Northern Soul]

What about players drink driving. Surely then it's also a 'sell them' approach as it's worse than spitting. What if they drink drive but don't get caught?

I logged myself in only to say how spot on this post is - well said sir!

Take each case on its merit.
Have any players done that in the past while playing for us ?
I can't recall, but I could be wrong ..

As for the not getting caught thing .. there's people I picture myself strangling on a regular basis but unless I actually do it I can't be punished for thinking about it, can I ??
We all break the law at times.
I bet everyone here who drives goes over the speed limit from time to time.

As for the comment above about League 1 football : that's precisely my point. We shouldn't let him off because he's one of our biggest talents.


Anyway .. I think this thread has almost run its course now - we seem to be going in circles.

Both Delph and Bakke have been done for drink driving while at Leeds. There might have been more, but those two for definite.

LOADS of former players did it and I would be stunned if some hadn't done coke/speed too whilst driving (in the last 20 years). Old fans will know that in the 60s and 70s there were a few players who were very grateful to the club and to the constabulary for helping them after they'd been bad lads. This is an ugly incident made worse of course because it was on the 'world stage', well BBC Wales at least, if Saiz doesn't mend his ways and learn from the lesson/punishment then I agree totally with DLW and others that then is the time to sell. And for another thing, he won't be much use to us if he carries on spitting as the ban would be even longer than 6 matches.

DLW, did you see or hear if Saiz had been hit or anything or was his spitting completely unprovoked?

[Deleted User 2747]

I don't agree with the 'sell him' theory. I think it's an overreaction. For clarity, what Siaz done was wrong and disgusting. It amounts to an assault. He has stepped outside the agreed terms of a physical contact sport, and decided to spit at someone. If he did it to a police officer on the street he would be arrested.

But I still wouldn't want him sold, unless he was continuing in this and other bad behaviour.

If we take the moral high ground then where does it end? Every single game I watch,players abuse the referee. My lip reading skills are limited but I can still make out the odd swear word. Not only are they sometimes swearing, but they are shouting in the refs face and aggressive in their demeanour. Go back to the police officer scenario. If joe public went up to an officer and was directing this very same level of abuse to an officer, then he would also be liable to arrest for disorderly behaviour. Yet, we seem to accept this abuse to the ref, because, well, he's good for it as he may have gave a dodgy decision against our team.

What about players drink driving. Surely then it's also a 'sell them' approach as it's worse than spitting. What if they drink drive but don't get caught?

My point is that it's hard to sell him for doing something that's wrong. It leaves us open to having to sell lots of players, as they are no angels. I think the fact that the establishment has a set punishment for this offence, then the punishment should be served and the case ended.

I could suggest that the punishment includes a loss of wages for the banned period!

I agree with you here 100%. Players should not behave towards the referee in any way except respectfully, as they do in nearly every other sport. If they are aggressive or wave imaginary cards then they should be sent off.

Again if they cheat in any way they should be carded. Cheating has really spoilt the game.

I think that the sooner we get technology properly into football, the better. This should cut down on the pushing and shoving and diving!

[Leonickroberts]

Interesting article in today's Guardian on how spitting compares to other on-pitch offences:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/bl ... ime-fa-ban

Not to re-open the debate, but in my view spitting is absolutely disgusting, unjustifiable, and totally worthy of a lengthy ban, but not in the same ballpark as racist or homophobic abuse, for which the punishments should be immediate and heavy (huge fines, multi-month bans, community service).

[Deleted User 728]

Yeah, I just read that but didn't post it for the same reasons

Good article though and I do understand what the guy's saying but I stand by what I said about Saiz.

#windsneckin

[johnh]

I don't agree with the 'sell him' theory. I think it's an overreaction. For clarity, what Siaz done was wrong and disgusting. It amounts to an assault. He has stepped outside the agreed terms of a physical contact sport, and decided to spit at someone. If he did it to a police officer on the street he would be arrested.

But I still wouldn't want him sold, unless he was continuing in this and other bad behaviour.

If we take the moral high ground then where does it end? Every single game I watch,players abuse the referee. My lip reading skills are limited but I can still make out the odd swear word. Not only are they sometimes swearing, but they are shouting in the refs face and aggressive in their demeanour. Go back to the police officer scenario. If joe public went up to an officer and was directing this very same level of abuse to an officer, then he would also be liable to arrest for disorderly behaviour. Yet, we seem to accept this abuse to the ref, because, well, he's good for it as he may have gave a dodgy decision against our team.

What about players drink driving. Surely then it's also a 'sell them' approach as it's worse than spitting. What if they drink drive but don't get caught?

My point is that it's hard to sell him for doing something that's wrong. It leaves us open to having to sell lots of players, as they are no angels. I think the fact that the establishment has a set punishment for this offence, then the punishment should be served and the case ended.

I could suggest that the punishment includes a loss of wages for the banned period!

I agree with you here 100%. Players should not behave towards the referee in any way except respectfully, as they do in nearly every other sport. If they are aggressive or wave imaginary cards then they should be sent off.

Again if they cheat in any way they should be carded. Cheating has really spoilt the game.

I think that the sooner we get technology properly into football, the better. This should cut down on the pushing and shoving and diving!

The football authorities should bring out a rule that the only players to communicate with referees are the captains of the teams. Any other player who makes comments to the ref's it should be a yellow card. This would also stop the ref's being surrounded by and harassed by players.

[Deleted User 728]

The football authorities should bring out a rule that the only players to communicate with referees are the captains of the teams. Any other player who makes comments to the ref's it should be a yellow card. This would also stop the ref's being surrounded by and harassed by players.

They tried that a few years back, though it was more of a recommendation than a rule.
I agree with you, John, it would be a culture-changing rule and could only benefit the game in the long term.

Unfortunately, in the short term chaos would ensue at amateur level and I suspect thousands of matches would be abandoned after a ref tries to enforce it either at Sunday league level (violence, intimidation, mass walk-offs from the opposition/ref himself) or at age group level (bitter parents threatening the officials plus all of the above !).

It's like the ten yard rule : in principle it was a great idea to move free-kicks forward, yet they bottled it too soon and gave up on it.
FIFA need to have the conviction to see these things through ..

I've always wondered what kind of a difference the abandoning of indirect free-kicks would make.
I can only think it would benefit the game if there's more shots on goal, wouldn't it ??
Just make all free-kicks direct. End of.

[Leonickroberts]

The football authorities should bring out a rule that the only players to communicate with referees are the captains of the teams. Any other player who makes comments to the ref's it should be a yellow card. This would also stop the ref's being surrounded by and harassed by players.

They tried that a few years back, though it was more of a recommendation than a rule.
I agree with you, John, it would be a culture-changing rule and could only benefit the game in the long term.

Unfortunately, in the short term chaos would ensue at amateur level and I suspect thousands of matches would be abandoned after a ref tries to enforce it either at Sunday league level (violence, intimidation, mass walk-offs from the opposition/ref himself) or at age group level (bitter parents threatening the officials plus all of the above !).

It's like the ten yard rule : in principle it was a great idea to move free-kicks forward, yet they bottled it too soon and gave up on it.
FIFA need to have the conviction to see these things through ..

I've always wondered what kind of a difference the abandoning of indirect free-kicks would make.
I can only think it would benefit the game if there's more shots on goal, wouldn't it ??
Just make all free-kicks direct. End of.

You're right Rigger that the reason many of these rules fail is FIFA/the FA/whichever authority's inability to grasp that grassroots football is very different to top-flight football in how easy it is to change the way things are done.

I've always been of the opinion that the reason football is far and away the best sport (and possibly thing) in the world is that a bunch of kids in a Rio favela, an overpaid premadonna at the Emirates, and me on a freezing Sunday morning in South London can all play exactly the same game. Although i'll grudgingly admit that goal-line technology and VAR might have a place, I still don't like any rule that separates the rarified air of the professionals from the people that make the game great (fans and kids worldwide).

[Deleted User 728]

I've always been of the opinion that the reason football is far and away the best sport (and possibly thing) in the world is that a bunch of kids in a Rio favela, an overpaid premadonna at the Emirates, and me on a freezing Sunday morning in South London can all play exactly the same game. Although i'll grudgingly admit that goal-line technology and VAR might have a place, I still don't like any rule that separates the rarified air of the professionals from the people that make the game great (fans and kids worldwide).

Amen, brother.
I've been using that argument for as long as I can remember as to why tech shouldn't be a part of the game, but like you I've finally softened my stance in the last few years given the advances that have been made.

I don't see why there can't be two sets of regulations drawn up anyway : one for the pro game and another for the amateur.

[Tourist]

Amen, brother.
I've been using that argument for as long as I can remember as to why tech shouldn't be a part of the game, but like you I've finally softened my stance in the last few years given the advances that have been made.

I don't see why there can't be two sets of regulations drawn up anyway : one for the pro game and another for the amateur.

But the reality is that we can't escape the advancement of technology (unfortunately, in some cases). For example - I sooner expect a VAR-like app being developed for smartphones, married with a pair of GoPro cameras for amateur use rather than any changes in rules. To be honest, I wonder why FIFA/UEFA haven't introduced it yet? Such a potential profit still unexplored... It's so unlike them.

End of off-top

[Deleted User 1076]

Not a fan of binning people for one offence, to be honest. He's apologised, lets move on. If he does it again he should be out.