Samuel Saiz

[Costy]

He is the best player we have had since we left the premier league hands down. His actions are caused by the fact he is quickly becoming a one man team. The other jokers he has around him do nothing in support and always look to him to create everything by himself. I would get frustrated in the same situation, he needs help from the other players, at least he is showing some passion and fight in games when others just disappear.

I disagree.
I would take Snoddy or Max over Saiz, despite them both having their own personal demons ..

No way Gradel! Snoddy was good, although I don't think better. Fabian Delph is probably the best we've had. Saiz is right up there though.

[Costy]

Final whistle & he's at it again. Sorry don't like him. Not my most popular post on here but a honest one.

I'm with you NW.

Billy and co would have "put him right" if he'd have made the same pitch.

Billy and co. did the same things, and probably worse to be honest. Maybe not spitting, but diving and trying to get opponents booked definitely.

Costy, have you turned in to Brian Clough? That's the sort of thing he would have said - he even accused Lorimer of being a diver, on the night when Lash was getting an award for POTY

Players in those days got on at the referee over free kicks and penalties but no way did they ever try get opponents booked or sent off. Players preferred a good, hard contest on the pitch.

Ha! No I haven't. I know I've had this whinge before but it just bugs me when football from the 60's and 70's is viewed through rose tinted spectacles and modern football is rubbished. It has its problems but in my opinion is still far superior.
The card waving gesture is a funny one; it definitely looks a bit unsavoury, but in reality is it any worse than verbally telling the ref that a foul should be a yellow, which practically all players do, including British ones? And do we not as fans scream for it from the sidelines? The card gesture is something done mostly by foreign players and is very much a cultural thing, as well as probably being to do with not speaking the language. The foul on Saiz, rightly or wrongly, was the kind of foul which now draws bookings (plenty of Leeds players have had them lately) and players are bound to ask for them, which I think they've probably always done.

[Another Northern Soul]

It's a difficult one I think. If a player is getting clattered regularly then I wouldn't blame him for waving that imaginary card.

I honestly think you're mistaken about Billy etc diving and trying to get opponents booked, it was a different mentality and culture then. It was almost a different game altogether, you're right. We've obviously seen a lot of Leeds games between us, I genuinely don't recall any Leeds player in the 70s diving or trying to get opponents done. If though a player like Eddie got walloped unfairly, which was probably a lot TBH, I know his team-mates would have been on at the ref to protect him more and to have a word with any repeat-offender. It's not the same as waving an imaginary card though, and Bremner appeared to dislike opponents getting booked etc, it wasn't about that.

[Deleted User 728]

No way Gradel!

I loved him.
You never knew what was gonna happen next and most of the time it was a good thing

[Davycc]

Don't get me wrong I love the skill and the thinking brain (football wise) but I hate the general attitude he has, the invisible card waving really bugs me. I'd near bet ref are thinking "f*%k you, I'll decide on the cards and you can get kicked a little more." Just get up and play on, the cards will come. As for spitting - been discussed already.

[Gilford_NI_Whites]

Don't get me wrong I love the skill and the thinking brain (football wise) but I hate the general attitude he has, the invisible card waving really bugs me. I'd near bet ref are thinking "f*%k you, I'll decide on the cards and you can get kicked a little more." Just get up and play on, the cards will come. As for spitting - been discussed already.

I don't have an issue with the imaginary card waving. I don't think he speaks great English, (I could be wrong) therefore uses the gesture. Most other players are over saying it to the ref and chirping in his ear. I don't see the difference in someone saying it and another player gesturing it.

Man Utd done it for years. Surrounding refs. Putting doubt in their mind, so as to psychologically win the next decision.

Nearly every player puts their hand up for a throw or corner. Even if it's blatantly not theirs. Again this is an attempt to confuse the ref.

I agree with the ref part. If it was me id say the same, even if it was people talking or gesturing. Either way it would become annoying from the refs perspective.

[birkybullufc]

No way Gradel!

I loved him.
You never knew what was gonna happen next and most of the time it was a good thing

Gradel, Snodgrass, Howson and Delph were all quality to watch. I enjoyed watching Jerome Thomas in his brief spell too. And as was shown last night, the player we miss the most from the team currently is Hernandez. A proper footballer who just wants to win.

[johnh]

I keep reading on here about Saiz. As I don't see many games I was looking forward to watching a live stream last night. Very disappointed in Saiz. All his possession was sideways across the pitch and back, going nowhere. His through balls and crosses were poor and either went through to the keeper (a couple were like passes back) or were easily cut out by defenders. Hopefully, I just picked a bad night.

[Davycc]

Don't get me wrong I love the skill and the thinking brain (football wise) but I hate the general attitude he has, the invisible card waving really bugs me. I'd near bet ref are thinking "f*%k you, I'll decide on the cards and you can get kicked a little more." Just get up and play on, the cards will come. As for spitting - been discussed already.

I don't have an issue with the imaginary card waving. I don't think he speaks great English, (I could be wrong) therefore uses the gesture. Most other players are over saying it to the ref and chirping in his ear. I don't see the difference in someone saying it and another player gesturing it.

Man Utd done it for years. Surrounding refs. Putting doubt in their mind, so as to psychologically win the next decision.

Nearly every player puts their hand up for a throw or corner. Even if it's blatantly not theirs. Again this is an attempt to confuse the ref.

I agree with the ref part. If it was me id say the same, even if it was people talking or gesturing. Either way it would become annoying from the refs perspective.

I totally agree. The hounding of refs is a disgrace and Man Utd were the worst at times but because they are the (I hate saying this) most successful club of recent times doesn't make it right.

I see your point re the language but it's every single time he goes down, he does himself no favours. If he cut this out I'd marry him myself.

On reflection, trying to dupe ref has been going on for years, but I still "dislike it"

[SiMamu]

Nah, I think Saiz has a proper flair player mentality. That bit of arrogance that he's basically a god when he has a football at his feet is what gives him the audacity to try what he does and play the way that he does. It's like with Ibrahimovic - he seems like a thoroughly dislikeable fellow, but that's what gives the him the ego to be the way he is on a football pitch. The waving cards is a bit annoying, but it's all part of his identity as this deity of technical ability.Someone daring to tackle or foul him is always going to go down badly as, after all, gods don't like their power being threatened - look at Zeus with Prometheus. The holding on to the ball partly stems from his desire to do something magical with the ball every time he gets it, as football is his own form of artistic expression. I think it also be due to not trusting his teammates enough with having it instead, bar Hernandez and Alioski. He has the ego of knowing he's the main man, but that's what gives him that little extra something to make him such a special player.