Samuel Saiz

[Davycc]

On a slightly softer note I was taking my daughter who is 29, covered in tattoos with piercings to do a shop yesterday. Everytime she had to interact with either a shop worker or another customer she was so polite and used please and thank you at every opportunity, I'm saying this as if its a one off but its not, it's just her, I'm sure my son is just the same. The look she chooses doesn't sit well with me and she knows that but I'm so proud of her manners and the way she treats others.

My own version of "don't judger a book by it's cover"

[johnh]

Its the way she has been brought up, follows the example set by her parents. You are justified to be proud.

[Deleted User 728]

Some of the nicest, most genuine people I've ever known have been the oddest dressed, the most-pierced and tattooed, the campest, most flamboyantly queer, the butchest, most dykey and masculine lesbian and - to top them all - the scariest looking bikers you can imagine.

There's a pub on the outskirts of town that was a biker pub and there was always rock music blaring out of it.
I never went in because it was a bit out of the way and I'm not that into rock but when I was in a band it was a regular night for us because we were a pub rock covers band.
I could walk in there now, some ten to fifteen years later and people would say hello and stop and chat.
It looked intimidating and I really didn't know what to expect, but I found that most of the bikers were really just hippies in leather. They liked a drink and a smoke, but weren't rowdy or even particularly drunk. They like a spliff. They liked to talk and were well-spoken, intelligent people holding down very good, professional jobs in some cases. They just liked rock music.

They just want to be left alone to enjoy the things they like and not be hassled by anyone, which is all anyone wants, isn't it ?

[Davycc]

Some of the nicest, most genuine people I've ever known have been the oddest dressed, the most-pierced and tattooed, the campest, most flamboyantly queer, the butchest, most dykey and masculine lesbian and - to top them all - the scariest looking bikers you can imagine.

There's a pub on the outskirts of town that was a biker pub and there was always rock music blaring out of it.
I never went in because it was a bit out of the way and I'm not that into rock but when I was in a band it was a regular night for us because we were a pub rock covers band.
I could walk in there now, some ten to fifteen years later and people would say hello and stop and chat.
It looked intimidating and I really didn't know what to expect, but I found that most of the bikers were really just hippies in leather. They liked a drink and a smoke, but weren't rowdy or even particularly drunk. They like a spliff. They liked to talk and were well-spoken, intelligent people holding down very good, professional jobs in some cases. They just liked rock music.

They just want to be left alone to enjoy the things they like and not be hassled by anyone, which is all anyone wants, isn't it ?

[johnh]

'....and not be hassled by anyone'. Does that include her indoors? I'll take my chances with the bikers!

[Get the kettle on]

I read this thread a while ago and thought, should I, shouldn't I?

I should.

When I was a lad.. I got bullied a lot at school. It was very bad, so much so I took an overdose at 11. That didn't work and the bullting didn't stop.

I went to comprehensive but it didn't stop there either.

One day I was on the school bus going home and as it got to my stop I got up to move to get off. Down the satirs came two 'lads' who dragged up a couple of 'greeneys' and spat point blank in my face. I'd be around 13yrs or so and they around 14yrs or so. Old enough to make informed choices.

Today i'm a grown bloke and so the 'bullies' would be too. Maybe folk like that sit next to you at ER and maybe they don't. Maybe you work for folk like that and maybe you don't.

I'm not sure what opinion to have about Saiz and the spitting incident. I'm not sure what opinion to have about the blokes who were bullies once upon a time.

Anyhow, i think it sheds a diffenet perspective on issues like players spitting and behaviour of our and other footballers.

[Deleted User 728]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there to be honest mate, though I'm sorry you were bullied as a kid.
It's a pathetic form of behaviour at any age, but 14 is old enough to know better, you're right.

EDIT : thinking about it again, I guess you were just unloading and weren't sure whether to.
Sorry for not getting it the first time round.

Sad thing is, I still see it at work from adults to this day.

In every single case, the person doing the bullying is insecure and has low self-esteem though of course they would never admit to it.
It's the same with "fighty" blokes - they feel they need to assert their masculinity in case anyone sees them for what they are : a normal human being with regular vulnerabilities like everyone else.

I walked away twice from bullies in the work place when - with hindsight - I probably should have shopped them both. I was fortunate enough to be able to get another job immediately in both cases and I didn't give them a second thought, but not everyone is as lucky as I was and the last time it happened someone actually had nearly a year off work and was eventually paid off by the same person. He's a senior figure at the university I last worked in and ex-army and doesn't like it when anyone dares to cross him. That person who he forced out was a woman.

He's a scumbag and if I ever see him again I know he'll be all smiles, just like he was when I left even though I know he knew why I walked out. He didn't win with me. He may have with her, but then she's in a job she loves now so it was only a battle and not the war.
He won't win forever and karma will get him at some point.

There's not much I believe in, but I do believe in that.

I hope all those experiences made you a better human being, GTKO, and I'm sure they have

[Another Northern Soul]

I can't condone Saiz spitting and I can't condone any Barsteward bullying anyone. I can shed a bit more light on the Saiz incident v Newport, it was said a few times but no one seemed to actually corroborate it, that Saiz had been smacked in the gob and obviously was incensed by it. Leeds didn't appeal the ban etc as it was on film of him spitting, a very long way (for spits) but the TV cameras possibly missed it. The sputum missile was bloody. It's no excuse but there was some mitigation, the lad had been bullied. That match started TC's downfall, he was advised to play a full strength team but chose not to.

[Get the kettle on]

Ah.. was just going to use the quote function and saw your edit rigger

Actually my shrouded point was..

An initial reaction can be, 'get him out of our club' type feeling. We might well be mates with folk who did similar things once upon a time and they may very well share a similar feeling.

As has been pointed out by lots of folk, spitting is a no no and no fan wants to see bad behaviour on or off the pitch from their or others players but some things in life aren't as black and white as they might first seem.

If we found out our mate did that once upon a time would we ditch them? Would we get shut?

That's kind of where I was going. I felt a look at behaviour outside the football field might (might) yeild a different look to the subject is all.

Apologies for any confusion as to why my previous post.

[Deleted User 728]

No need to apologise

This goes back to the thing about people deserving a second chance again .. sometimes, yes they do, sometimes, no they don't.