Why we will not go up this season

[TezzaWazzaBazza]

Footballing wise we don't need Viera. Phillips has been much better than I thought, and VIera cannot compete with Klich/Forshaw. Maybe Viera would have been worth more in the future, but so what? A business has to make decisions. All clubs do this. If AR makes mistakes, so be it. Who doesn't? If we're promotion contenders at the end of the season he gets 10/10 from me.

I think another centre back would be reassuring, but I don't think this is an issue the season will fall down on. There's another loan window if we're desperate.

There is more belief about the team this year, and much more confidence in how they use the ball. Those players are learning what they're capable of individually and as a team. This is potentially enormous for the club in terms of it's culture and future. My hope is that a way of thinking and style will become engrained and last beyond Bielsa. There is no point worrying about rainy cold nights against Millwall, they don't define a season. You can't win everything, but you can do things the right way, keep learning and keep believing.

[Nic]

Bielsa believes in a lean squad system, so could we have Viera and Bartley and still be as lean, or are there players we have you'd push out to have kept Viera, or to get Bartley in?

At the end of last season, most fans will have agreed that we would unlikely go up this season, possibly also before this season kicked off, but now saying we won't go up seems a minority view. Though I'm sure if we do ever going a losing streak, views like the cause is selling Viera will rise again.

Maybe a CB, but they wouldn't get that much playing time at present. If we are still towards the top come January, then more likely to get that 1 or 2 players to ensure we keep up there.

[astackofalpacas]

To put things into context I am a big fan Radrizzani, and Bielsa has delivered a side which is as entertaining, as anything that we have witnessed since the O’Leary’s days. That said, I believe the pair have made a number of errors of judgement which will result in us not achieving promotion.

Mistake 1 - was the needless sale of Viera. Neither the manager or chairman truly wanted to sell, the only rationale was cash flow.

Why sell a player when 1. Bielsa believes he can double in value under in 12 months. 2. Radrizzani has indicated he would like to buy back. 3. Who plays in a key position where we are likely to be exposed a la Tuesday. 4. Who we would struggle to replace like for like, without giving the replacement at least an additional £500k on top of RV’s salary.

Mistake 2 - Sorry Marcelo - you may be the high priest of the high press, a coaching demigod. But we do need a tall commanding centre back to play alongside / fill in for Pontus. Boro, Millwall, Brentford, I’m sorry even if we have 75% possession I can see us conceding 3 from set plays. Winter pitches etc - I just fear we will be our playing style will stifled & we will get caught out by the physicality of the championship.

Mistake 3 - Radrizzani - sorry but a coach doesn’t guarantee promotion without the right playing staff. You have to support your manager and address fundamental weaknesses. Conte wouldn’t have guaranteed promotion without investment in the playing staff. Bielsa appears to have worked miracles but I sorry he will fall short for the same reason. Villa, Boro & Stoke have just added real quality to their squads. It’s we are desperately at the heart of our defensive line.

Andrea - I can give you 150 million reasons why Viera shouldn’t have been sold and Bartley should have been bought. If Liverpool is now valued at £2b plus, I’m pretty sure you could be out of Leeds for £500m if deliver the holy grail.

I hope to god I proven wrong, but that’s why I think the playoffs is the best we will achieve this season, with 7 days of the window left hopefully the pair of them might also pull a couple of rabbits out the hat but it’s not looking likely.

Mistake one: Vieira leaving is being blown way out of proportion. He didn't once look half as convincing as Phillips has thus far, was extremely inconsistent (albeit very young) and had everyone been fit, wouldn't be anywhere near the first team. He'd be behind Phillips, Baker, Forshaw, and Klich. I want Leeds promoted this season, not in five seasons when Vieira is mature enough to actually make a difference. We made good money out of him - so he may be worth more in the future, who cares? As long as we put in a nice sell-on clause, I really couldn't care less. He had potential but I'm tired of potential. He would've contributed very little this season, so it makes a lot more sense to have sold him and brought in Bamford who will actually be utilised. In an ideal world, yes we'd have kept him and signed Bamford too, but keeping a fifth choice player when we don't have a huge amount of money to play around with is just silly.

Mistake two: Don't understand the obsession with another centre half, either. Jansson is excellent, Cooper can be prone to the odd mistake but is generally competent at this level, Berardi is proving himself to be a very viable option at CB, plus Ayling and Shaughnessy as well can slot in as and when required. Bielsa's been very clear that he's happy with his centre half options, and it's tiring reading how everyone wants another one. For all the talk of how fragile we look defensively, we've conceded one penalty at Stoke, a freak free kick at Derby, a defensive mishap by our second string at Bolton, and a goalkeeping mistake and a superb header at Swansea. Hardly a sign that we're leaking goals left, right, and centre. A few mistakes and a great header. We've got a little work to do on defending set pieces and our general defensive shape, as well as cutting out silly little fouls, but that can be worked at on the training ground. Sick of the whole 'let's just buy another player!' argument. We've finally got a coach who is willing to work with players, and the younger players, too - let him do his job. Who would've considered Berardi as a viable CB option before the season started, and look at him now. If Bielsa's happy with his options at CB, who are we to argue otherwise?

Mistake three: Radz has already invested in the playing squad. The early season performances indicate strongly that the issue wasn't Orta's signings - although many were disappointments - it was the substandard management teams who didn't know how to utilise the players in question. We're playing virtually the same players as last year, plus Douglas, and we've started fantastically. We've got another four new players in reserve, plus a rumoured fifth coming in this week. We have invested in the playing squad, just over three transfer windows. The foundations were already in place, and Bielsa saw that otherwise he wouldn't have taken on the job. Forshaw and Dallas are still to come back through injury, as well as Cooper. Roberts, Shaughessy, Pearce, and Shackleton all complement the first team squad, too. We needed a striker, and Radz shuffled his pack, let Vieira go, and got Bielsa the striker he wanted. We know he hasn't got limitless funds, but he has invested in the club and in the playing squad. He realised that the key thing we lacked last season was a competent manager, so he went out of his way to get us one - one who himself said that 14/15 of the players we considered to be useless were more than good enough to get us promoted, and just look at the start we've made.

Finally, can we all let it go with the Bartley love-in? He was a good player for us, but Bielsa either didn't want him, or didn't think he was worth the money he was asking for/Swansea were asking for. Move on.

IBWT.

[rss1969]

We have not invested in the squad.

Viera, Taylor, Wood & Bridcut have all been sold at a good profit compared with what we have bought in.

Viera would slot into this team brilliantly IMO. If all of the players have gone up a level why is it now that he has been sold that Viera would also not have stepped up a level? Bielsa has already said that he did not want Viera to leave but has accepted it.

We are short of a quality CB.......never mind as cover. We have needed one since Bartley left (and I would not have paid 6.5M for him like the baggies did).

Most of Orta's punts have left or are on loan at a lesser level than we play at, not good business at all.

We may win the league without the above but that does not mean that Radz has invested properly in the team. He hasn't.

[Davycc]

We may win the league without the above but that does not mean that Radz has invested properly in the team. He hasn't.

I hope we do win the league even if it means he can't win then really.

[astackofalpacas]

We have not invested in the squad.

Viera, Taylor, Wood & Bridcut have all been sold at a good profit compared with what we have bought in.

Viera would slot into this team brilliantly IMO. If all of the players have gone up a level why is it now that he has been sold that Viera would also not have stepped up a level? Bielsa has already said that he did not want Viera to leave but has accepted it.

We are short of a quality CB.......never mind as cover. We have needed one since Bartley left (and I would not have paid 6.5M for him like the baggies did).

Most of Orta's punts have left or are on loan at a lesser level than we play at, not good business at all.

We may win the league without the above but that does not mean that Radz has invested properly in the team. He hasn't.

I really don't know what you expect. We have invested in the squad since Radz took charge:

OUT:
Charlie Taylor - £6m
Liam Bridcutt - £1m
Chris Wood - £15m
Lee Erwin - Undisclosed, fair to say no more than £100k
Marco Silvestri - Undisclosed, fair to say no more than £500k
Felix Weidwald - Undisclosed, fair to say no more than £500k
Marcus Antonsson - Undisclosed, fair to say no more than £1m
Ronaldo Vieira - Undisclosed, widely reported as £7.7m

Total: £31.8m

IN:

Pontus Jansson - £3.6m
Mateusz Klich - £1.5m
Hadi Sacko - £1.6m
Felix Weidwald - £500k
Caleb Ekuban - £500k
Samu Saiz - £3.1m
Ezgjan Alioski - £3.2m
Jay-Roy Grot - £750k
Pawel Cibicki - £1.5m
Yosuke Ideguchi - £500k
Laurens De Bock - £1.5m
Adam Forshaw - £4.5m
Tyler Roberts - £2.5m
Barry Douglas - £3m
Patrick Bamford - £7m

Total: £35.25m

That's obviously not including any loan fees we may have raked in this season getting rid of some of Orta's less-than-inspired signings, but I've also omitted all of the money spent on younger academy players, which often cost a few hundred thousand each and may in fact offset the money gained through loan fees. I've also not mentioned players like Anita, Lonergan, and Bouy, who all would've presumably had signing on fees, nor have I mentioned the loan players of both this season and last season, most of whom would've cost loan fees in addition to their wages - Lasogga's wages, even if we only paid a third of his £50k p/w, weren't cheap, and I'd imagine Blackman, Baker, and Harrison are all on fairly decent wages at their respective clubs.

And mostly importantly, that's not including Bielsa and his backroom staff. Bielsa is the highest paid manager in the club's history, and I bet his backroom team are on a fair wage as well. Over the course of their contracts, I'd wager that's another £4/5/6m tied up, too.

We may not be investing as much as you want Radz to, but the evidence speaks for itself. Also worth remembering he bought back the stadium - that wouldn't have been cheap, but we'll never need to pay the extortionate rental fees for that again. He's investing in the club, not just the first team's playing staff.

Vieira may well have stepped up a level along with the rest of them, who knows, but the point is, do we miss him? I really don't think we do. We had far too many central midfielders, and as well as being lower down the pecking order (Bielsa even said he'd only have ever started on the bench), he was also our most saleable asset and inconsistent player. No brainer to sell him. Klich is far better, Forshaw is far better, and Baker looks like he'll be far better too. We've got Shackleton coming through, who looks like he could be a great little player, and there's even been talk of Bielsa liking the idea of Dallas as a central player. Would've said Phillips was just as inconsistent as Vieira at the start of the season, but clearly Bielsa went in and saw that of the two, Phillips was the superior player, and has been quite rightly justified in his perception given Phillips' outstanding performances thus far.

Bielsa knew what he was getting into. He was told right from the word go that we may have to sell to fund quality signings. I have no doubt in my mind that given the choice of anyone in the squad to sell, Vieira would've been at the higher end of Bielsa's list. He was arguably our most saleable asset despite never showing any kind of consistency. Would've been a backup player at best this season, even if he did improve at the same rate as the others have. He wasn't half as good as Cook and I don't remember fans having half as much outrage when he was sold, for less money, mind you!

Even I'm tired of hearing about this CB we supposedly desperately need, so poor Bielsa must be sick to death of it! We have FIVE viable centre half options, six if you include Phillips who played there in pre-season, plus two or three more in the U23s which Bielsa isn't afraid of utilising. Bielsa likes to actually work with his players, as we can already see with the way Berardi is proving himself to be a very capable CB. Why spend money on players hoping something will stick when you can actually work on and develop the existing players, who aren't actually that bad? We've hardly looked awful defensively this season, and our problems last season weren't as simple as 'we lost Bartley'.

No one ever claimed that Orta's signings were infallible; they're not. Many were very, very poor, and Bielsa quickly decided that many weren't up to the required standard. But the fact remains that the vast majority of the team that we all thought were dire last season are top of the league, having scored the most goals, playing some beautiful football. Who knows if it'll last, but it goes to show that instead of screaming at the club to spend tens of millions of pounds on players (I still laugh at those who wanted to spend £10m on that carthorse Hugill!), perhaps all we needed was a manager who knew how to work with those players.

[MyNameIsMark]

^ ^ Excellent post! ^ ^

[rss1969]

You have actually strengthened my points but I am not going to list them all, nor quote as the resulting post becomes boring for forumers.
My posts are seen as negative and we are top of the table so will be deemed even more so.

A couple of key signings would strengthen our position but he will not sanction it. I am not a fan and not fooled by his PR, I am not alone in that opinion.

Anyhow, let’s keep this football up and hopefully our patience will be rewarded come May.

[NottinghamWhite]

^ ^ Excellent post! ^ ^

Totally agree & welcome to the forum astackofalpacas

[Another Northern Soul]

You have actually strengthened my points but I am not going to list them all, nor quote as the resulting post becomes boring for forumers.
My posts are seen as negative and we are top of the table so will be deemed even more so.

A couple of key signings would strengthen our position but he will not sanction it. I am not a fan and not fooled by his PR, I am not alone in that opinion.

Anyhow, let’s keep this football up and hopefully our patience will be rewarded come May.

I don't see them as negative RSS, you're stating your opinion that you think we won't get promoted, simple as that. Unfortunately on social media, such opinions are often confused with the poster being miserable for the sake of it and almost 'wishing' defeat etc on the same team we support.

Your points are valid .