LUFCTALK

SiMamu wrote:

onenorthernsoul wrote:Respect to anyone if they were saying at the relevant time that Byram was tired and should be rested, though I don't think anyone was saying he should be rested because he's got a hip problem which will get worse if he isn't given a lay-off.

I did. You can't overplay young players or they'll get injured; they may run around like they can keep on doing so for days on end, but their body isn't adapted to playing week in week out for 90 minutes. The same thing happened to Jack Wilshere and Nathaniel Clyne when they played almost every game in a season (Clyne literally played all 46 games). Their muscles can't take the strain.

But then Howson was fine being an ever-present for like 3 consecutive seasons from a young age. Some players are susceptible to injury and others aren't, it's impossible to call which are until the injuries strike.

exactly.

That is true, fair enough.

SiMamu wrote:

onenorthernsoul wrote:Respect to anyone if they were saying at the relevant time that Byram was tired and should be rested, though I don't think anyone was saying he should be rested because he's got a hip problem which will get worse if he isn't given a lay-off.

I did. You can't overplay young players or they'll get injured; they may run around like they can keep on doing so for days on end, but their body isn't adapted to playing week in week out for 90 minutes. The same thing happened to Jack Wilshere and Nathaniel Clyne when they played almost every game in a season (Clyne literally played all 46 games). Their muscles can't take the strain.

100% right. A 20 year old doesn't have anywhere near the physical conditioning of a 28 year old. When the human body is growing (up to about the age of 21) it is already being put under a lot of stress. Intensive amounts of first team football on top of training and U21/England duty can be too much. Fatigue inevitably leads to injuries and sometimes hamper them for their whole career.

SiMamu wrote:

onenorthernsoul wrote:Respect to anyone if they were saying at the relevant time that Byram was tired and should be rested, though I don't think anyone was saying he should be rested because he's got a hip problem which will get worse if he isn't given a lay-off.

I did. You can't overplay young players or they'll get injured; they may run around like they can keep on doing so for days on end, but their body isn't adapted to playing week in week out for 90 minutes. The same thing happened to Jack Wilshere and Nathaniel Clyne when they played almost every game in a season (Clyne literally played all 46 games). Their muscles can't take the strain.

Although I agree with what you are saying I'm not sure Jack Wilshire is a good example as his injury (stress fracture) that resulted in a long lay off actually occured in a pre season friendly so can hardly be related to too many matches. He did get a 2nd injury (ankle i think) when returning from the initial injury, didn't start a match for 14 month.
Did get injured at end of season but that happend when Wenger was playing him only occasionally.

Selby White wrote:

SiMamu wrote:

onenorthernsoul wrote:Respect to anyone if they were saying at the relevant time that Byram was tired and should be rested, though I don't think anyone was saying he should be rested because he's got a hip problem which will get worse if he isn't given a lay-off.

I did. You can't overplay young players or they'll get injured; they may run around like they can keep on doing so for days on end, but their body isn't adapted to playing week in week out for 90 minutes. The same thing happened to Jack Wilshere and Nathaniel Clyne when they played almost every game in a season (Clyne literally played all 46 games). Their muscles can't take the strain.

Although I agree with what you are saying I'm not sure Jack Wilshire is a good example as his injury (stress fracture) that resulted in a long lay off actually occured in a pre season friendly so can hardly be related to too many matches. He did get a 2nd injury (ankle i think) when returning from the initial injury, didn't start a match for 14 month.
Did get injured at end of season but that happend when Wenger was playing him only occasionally.

He was playing with minor ankle knock towards the end of the 2010/11 season which was aggravated and worsened during pre season. His performances worsened towards the end of the season because of it.

SiMamu wrote:

Selby White wrote:

SiMamu wrote:

onenorthernsoul wrote:Respect to anyone if they were saying at the relevant time that Byram was tired and should be rested, though I don't think anyone was saying he should be rested because he's got a hip problem which will get worse if he isn't given a lay-off.

I did. You can't overplay young players or they'll get injured; they may run around like they can keep on doing so for days on end, but their body isn't adapted to playing week in week out for 90 minutes. The same thing happened to Jack Wilshere and Nathaniel Clyne when they played almost every game in a season (Clyne literally played all 46 games). Their muscles can't take the strain.

Although I agree with what you are saying I'm not sure Jack Wilshire is a good example as his injury (stress fracture) that resulted in a long lay off actually occured in a pre season friendly so can hardly be related to too many matches. He did get a 2nd injury (ankle i think) when returning from the initial injury, didn't start a match for 14 month.
Did get injured at end of season but that happend when Wenger was playing him only occasionally.

He was playing with minor ankle knock towards the end of the 2010/11 season which was aggravated and worsened during pre season. His performances worsened towards the end of the season because of it.

Agree but the point been made is about over playing young players causing injury, that wasn't the reason for his ankle injury, it happend during a international match and could have happend to any player irrespective of age. The fact he played and aggravated it before it was fully repaired again could happen to any player, age wasn't a factor.

Reminds me of a time I went to a gig to see Dumpy's Rusty Nuts. I had a couple of newkie browns before the show, then a couple more at the gig. Headbanging away for an hour. I thought I was alright until I walked outside, as soon as the cold air hit me I turned into a paraplegic zombie, completely off my trolley.

Also eating McDonalds, I can eat a cheeseburger and not even feel it. I can eat eight cheeseburgers and still have room for crisps, BUT! if I eat one cheeseburger and wait half an hour all of a sudden I feel full.

And last, working out at home in the morning before work. I did 4 sets of 7 reps and felt good so I thought I would do another set. 3 reps and my rotary cuff went. 21 years later and I'm still carrying the injury in my left shoulder.

I know I called for Sam to be rested in Capital One and FA Cup games (as did others - although more seem to be claiming it now ), along with some league games but you look at it from manager / player view: a lot of fans had given up on Warnock by January; by then Pelts had shown, lets say, fallibility and Sam was playing out of his skin. What would 99% of fans have said / done if Byram had been rested by NW? The lad would have made it clear he was fit and raring to go so the under-fire manager would be trying to explain leaving out the child-prodigy. Never going to go well.

Then take into account that a fantastic scout didn't see a problem with the lad right up until the warm-up of the Brighton game when Sam said he didn't feel right; nothing before that we hear, nada. In hindsight, yes, I'm sure BMc would have rested him before but it's one of those things that can't be predicted; we all assume its because he played so many matches but I ruptured my ankle to a point where consultant said it would have been better if I'd broken it by stepping off a kerb, number 2s happens; Sam could have slept funny or twisted getting out of a car, we just don't know.

So lets leave off the hindsight-fuelled "shouldn't have played him"; I cited the Gerrard thing as a kid which was being over-played and its possible that Sam's first long season at this level has caused a problem but hindsight isn't helping the lad now; he trained two days this week and was "sore" - whatever the cause of problem, taking it easy and not playing over the summer clearly hasn't solved it so all we can do is hope that he gets the treatment he needs to get back playing - and that we don't end up regretting not taking £8m for someone who, after nearly 3 months rest, can't train