44 Days with Brian Clough.

[Selby White]

Good input to the debate Mark but got to disagree about Francis and discovering Nish both were established prior to signing for him, both for record transfers.

Do agree with a lot of what you say though

[guitarmark]

Good input to the debate Mark but got to disagree about Francis and discovering Nish both were established prior to signing for him, both for record transfers.

Do agree with a lot of what you say though

Bad phrasing on my part - Yes I agree Nish + Francis were already established

I meant he found a few players who achieved great things, but they did not stay with BC for long - More so with Forest as he quit the DCFC job very early - But Keene, Web, Woodcock, Francis for starters never stayed with him for long, for whatever reason that was

[ChilwellWhite]

Right as a starter The Damned United is totally fictional and should never be used as a point of reference visa vie Clough's tenure at Leeds, for example in the film Giles was 6' tall. It was Clough's ego that made him take the Leeds job, Taylor wanted none of it. Clough was nothing without Taylor and that was obvious at Leeds. His first words regarding throwing their medals in the bin summed up the arrogance of the man. I never liked him before he came to Leeds and the dislike intensified after he left us. What he did at a provisional club like Forest was remarkable but he should never have come to Elland Road. Mind he ended up with a nice severance package which included a brand new Mercedes.

[mapperleywhite]

Bit harsh calling him a fake, mate

Could have been stronger, didn't like the man at all and thats before he came to Leeds.

Result I'm afraid of having a nasty supervisor that was a Clough fanatic that never shut up about him during my days as an apprentice (left me bitter and twisted ).

Ha! Interesting line of thought SW.......

I had a really obnoxious work colleague who was a Sunderland fan. I'm happy they're in the 3rd division now.

Also my ex-brother in law, being a Derby County man, was mortified that his sister married a Leeds fan, this being early 80's. When Florist are playing them you'l know which side I'm on...

[Deleted User 3289]

I have heard he fell out with and had little respect for other successful managers of the day inc Bill Shankly + Bertie Mee - So think it is fair to see the young big head mentality was part of him

I don't know if he changed his mind over time, but if i remember correctly in the Frost interview he called Shankly a one-off football manager.

Whatever anybody thinks of his personality there is no doubting his record. The back to back European cup wins with Forest surpassed the Liverpool ones for me.

[Deleted User 5081]

I think History proves that Brian Clough was a successful manager regardless of what we think of him. He won the highest honors domestically and also on the biggest club stage of all the European Cup. Alex Fergusson had to wait many years in order to build a side capable of doing that, our own Don Revie didn't achieve it but should have if the FA had really looked after the Leeds team at the time instead of putting obstacles in our way.

The one thing that irks me most about Brian Clough was his attitude, he thought he was God. Most of his players disliked him but feared him. His ego was as big as the world but the fact remains he succeeded elsewhere rather than at Leeds and sometimes we can be overly biased against him because of the 44 days he spent trying to destroy the legacy the Don had built up. I get that very much. Brian Clough passed on a few years ago as well as the Don, I will never see them both in the same light because the Don was the best manager of the two, respectful, caring, and a genius with man management. Clough was an egocentric similar to Cellino in that regard but credit is due for his successes with both Derby and Forrest respectively.

[Phil147]

Would it have been any different if Peter Taylor had come with him? Maybe he would have smoothed the relationship between Clough and the players. Whoever came in at that point was going to have a big rebuilding job ahead of them in the next couple of years, Clough tried to do it too quickly and in the wrong way. He himself admitted later he was too arrogant and should have gone about things differently. I think Peter Taylor would have helped him there.
When you look what he managed to do with Derby and especially with Forest I do wonder what he might have achieved at Leeds if he was given more time and had a different approach.
From memory I'm sure Don Revie had recommended Johnny Giles for the role and the board were going to go with that and then Billy Bremner threw his hat in for the role as well. The board panicked not wanting to upset the apple cart and have a divided dressing room so went for an external appointment instead.
So the board bottled it with the GIles situation. And then they bottled it again when sacking Clough... Both times giving into or fearful of player power.

[johnh]

Would it have been any different if Peter Taylor had come with him? Maybe he would have smoothed the relationship between Clough and the players. Whoever came in at that point was going to have a big rebuilding job ahead of them in the next couple of years, Clough tried to do it too quickly and in the wrong way. He himself admitted later he was too arrogant and should have gone about things differently. I think Peter Taylor would have helped him there.
When you look what he managed to do with Derby and especially with Forest I do wonder what he might have achieved at Leeds if he was given more time and had a different approach.
From memory I'm sure Don Revie had recommended Johnny Giles for the role and the board were going to go with that and then Billy Bremner threw his hat in for the role as well. The board panicked not wanting to upset the apple cart and have a divided dressing room so went for an external appointment instead.
So the board bottled it with the GIles situation. And then they bottled it again when sacking Clough... Both times giving into or fearful of player power.

I think Johnny Giles would have gone down in football history as one of the great managers. A crying shame that he never got the Leeds job.

[Phil147]

We will never know... but for sure Giles would have brought some continuity to the process and would have treated the players better. Plus he would always have had the Don to go to for advice. IMHO the downward spiral began when the Board didn't give it to Giles.

They should have been strong there and even if it did, god forbid, mean Billy Bremner had to leave if he was upset at not getting the job.

Although I think he would have stayed, 'side before self' after all...

[Phil147]

We will never know... but for sure Giles would have brought some continuity to the process and would have treated the players better. Plus he would always have had the Don to go to for advice. IMHO the downward spiral began when the Board didn't give it to Giles.

They should have been strong there and even if it did, god forbid, mean Billy Bremner had to leave if he was upset at not getting the job.

Although I think he would have stayed, 'side before self' after all...