ilkley62 wrote:Agree that his ego got in the way at Leeds, wrong time for him to be here.
He / they (with Taylor) did build 2 excellent teams at Derby & Forest but don't forget how much he spent, haven't got the facts to hand but wouldn't be surprised if he spent as much at Derby & Forest as any club in the division at the time.
He bought a lot of players at both clubs & didn't he break the transfer record at both as well? Nish at Derby & Francis at Forest
Thats correct Ilkley
On par with many managers at top clubs today who need to be the biggest spenders to achieve success buying virtually complete teams. In my eyes that was Clough at Derby (believe he only had 4 home grown in his squad).
The real top managers are the likes of Revie, Shankley & Busby who built teams from scratch, only signing a small number of players to strengthen obvious weak spots.
Keep your face always toward the sunshine - and shadows will fall behind you.
Could have been stronger, didn't like the man at all and thats before he came to Leeds.
Result I'm afraid of having a nasty supervisor that was a Clough fanatic that never shut up about him during my days as an apprentice (left me bitter and twisted ).
Keep your face always toward the sunshine - and shadows will fall behind you.
I get that and knew there had to be an explanation
But some players he undeniably improved.
It's not much different to Bielsa : evaluate the squad and keep the ones you know you can work with.
It must be a mental thing as well as having certain energy levels in both cases - I'm thinking Phillips and McGovern when I say that.
They are adaptable characters willing to run (and run and run) through brick walls all day long and they can take an instruction.
"Better" players - Vurnon Anita for example - who just don't get it will be moved on.
You can't flat out say he's a bad coach, can you ?
rigger wrote:I get that and knew there had to be an explanation
But some players he undeniably improved.
It's not much different to Bielsa : evaluate the squad and keep the ones you know you can work with.
It must be a mental thing as well as having certain energy levels in both cases - I'm thinking Phillips and McGovern when I say that.
They are adaptable characters willing to run (and run and run) through brick walls all day long and they can take an instruction.
"Better" players - Vurnon Anita for example - who just don't get it will be moved on.
You can't flat out say he's a bad coach, can you ?
I can't resist a dig at him but in truth i believe Taylor was the technical coach and he was the motivator and thats why they worked well together.
Individually not so good they both needed each other.
Keep your face always toward the sunshine - and shadows will fall behind you.
rigger wrote:I get that and knew there had to be an explanation
But some players he undeniably improved.
It's not much different to Bielsa : evaluate the squad and keep the ones you know you can work with.
It must be a mental thing as well as having certain energy levels in both cases - I'm thinking Phillips and McGovern when I say that.
They are adaptable characters willing to run (and run and run) through brick walls all day long and they can take an instruction.
"Better" players - Vurnon Anita for example - who just don't get it will be moved on.
You can't flat out say he's a bad coach, can you ?
I can't resist a dig at him but in truth i believe Taylor was the technical coach and he was the motivator and thats why they worked well together.
Individually not so good they both needed each other.
Taylor was a goalkeeper while Clough was a skilful forward.
Which do you think made the best coach ?
I don't know the answer because though I have read one of his bio's I don't know who did what from Monday to Friday.
I do recall him saying he'd not see the players some weeks if they'd been poor the week before, only turning up on the Saturday morning as they boarded the coach for the match, to have more of an impact. It was all mind-games whether he was on your side or not ..
Taylor was a goalkeeper while Clough was a skilful forward.
Which do you think made the best coach ?
I don't know the answer because though I have read one of his bio's I don't know who did what from Monday to Friday.
I do recall him saying he'd not see the players some weeks if they'd been poor the week before, only turning up on the Saturday morning as they boarded the coach for the match, to have more of an impact. It was all mind-games whether he was on your side or not ..
Well there is an argument that goalkeepers see more of the game than any outfield player, they often organise the defence and have to be aware of everything in front of them.
Plenty of goalkeepers become managers or coaches.
I actually believe midfielders or defenders make the best managers, strikers are often too selfish.
Also heard many times that Clough was very rarely on the training pitch which agrees with what you recall him saying.
Keep your face always toward the sunshine - and shadows will fall behind you.
Selby White wrote:...Also heard many times that Clough was very rarely on the training pitch which agrees with what you recall him saying.
Martin O'Neill has repeatedly said this. He recalls Taylor as being the day to day technician.
He admits to disliking Clough, but also said he was the right man at the right time when it came to motivation - even if you were motivated to play well in spite of him - still part of his plan...
"An astonishing number of people despise Leeds United or what Leeds United stand for. But this club was never made for them." - Phil Hay
I'm from the Derby area so hear so much about him via DCFC and NFFC fans, all to often - One report/story in a book was that he wished he had handled the Leeds job differently - He hated Revie so much that he wanted to effectively destroy the legacy that Don had created - And we've all heard stories of him taking down pics etc at ER - He goes on to say that he should have built LUFC to be even bigger and more succesful under his regime, than under Don's and that way he would have been seen to be the 'main man'
I'm not sure if that was possible or not, to rebuild and develop a new 'super team' - LUFC at the time was coming to the end of its dominance with that team, as age was catching up with many of them - We know that Fergie managed to re-build MUFC a couple of times, but in the end left a weak side to the next incoming manager
Clough managed to achieve success with 2 smallish provisional town clubs - DCFC and NFFC and by and large did it with some 'not outstanding' players, but with a good team spirit - He helped to establish a few players into the top flight, but some will say that whilst he found them, and helped to establish them, he never hung on to them many of them for to long - Web, Keene, Woodcock, Francis for starters - I'd say 2 great players he discovered were McFarland and David Nish - The likes of McFarland with Gordon McQueen would have been a good back bone to start with at LUFC from 74 on-wards
I have heard he fell out with and had little respect for other successful managers of the day inc Bill Shankly + Bertie Mee - So think it is fair to see the young big head mentality was part of him
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