2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Leeds United news here, transfer rumours, club affairs, players, fans, etc.
Specific match discussions should go in the category below.
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ChilwellWhite
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by ChilwellWhite »

As I posted the other day roll on February all this speculation about players is mind numbing. The S*n are now reporting that we are in for Bowen, probably Jim knowing our luck. We have tended to go about our business without telling the world what’s going on so I’m happy something will happen. Any news on how Poveda’s day trip to Thorp Arch went yesterday.
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Selby White
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by Selby White »

Polkadot wrote:
Selby White wrote:Even a 4 month loan I would be against, recruit with a view to the future is my preferred option, if impossible deal with it with the players we have (that have took us to 2nd in the league).
I totally understand your view, but:

IF (and there is a big if) we`re going up to Premier League we will be able to buy a striker in the summer window that is on another level than the strikers availible for us now. Let`s say that the striker we bring in help us achieve promotions, the options are 1) sign Sharp on a loan deal until the end of season. Then we`re free to search for a better striker in the summer window as a Premier League club and can attract players at a whole different level, or 2) sign Dwight Gayle with an obligation to buy in the summer. Then we`re forced to spend a lot of money on a striker which possibly isn`t good enough for the Championship.

So my point is, if we can`t bring in a player that can contribute NOW and in the Premiership it`s better to look short term.
Seriously how can you be sure Sharp will produce surely given the very limited game time he's had it will take game time for him to get up to speed.
Scoring history means nothing, older players quite often don't produce former glories with failed with that route before (eg, Rush & Flo).
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Selby White
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by Selby White »

MOT1964 wrote:
Viduka Hits The Mark wrote:
Shadwell White wrote:Bowan rumoured now 3m and 15m at the end of the season
I know its only speculation. So that would be £30m in IOU's at the end of the season. Its got to be a green light from QSI? No! :shifty:
Graham Smyth
@GrahamSmyth

Jarrod Bowen not a player Leeds United are presently pursuing, the YEP understands.
Feel that's the issue most of the players we are linked with is based purely on social media or lazy journalism.
People take it as gospel slag the club when we don't sign, it's crazy nothing seems based on fact.
Keep your face always toward the sunshine - and shadows will fall behind you.
Polkadot
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by Polkadot »

Selby White wrote:
Polkadot wrote:
Selby White wrote:Even a 4 month loan I would be against, recruit with a view to the future is my preferred option, if impossible deal with it with the players we have (that have took us to 2nd in the league).
I totally understand your view, but:
IF (and there is a big if) we`re going up to Premier League we will be able to buy a striker in the summer window that is on another level than the strikers availible for us now. Let`s say that the striker we bring in help us achieve promotions, the options are 1) sign Sharp on a loan deal until the end of season. Then we`re free to search for a better striker in the summer window as a Premier League club and can attract players at a whole different level, or 2) sign Dwight Gayle with an obligation to buy in the summer. Then we`re forced to spend a lot of money on a striker which possibly isn`t good enough for the Championship.
So my point is, if we can`t bring in a player that can contribute NOW and in the Premiership it`s better to look short term.
Seriously how can you be sure Sharp will produce surely given the very limited game time he's had it will take game time for him to get up to speed. Scoring history means nothing, older players quite often don't produce former glories with failed with that route before (eg, Rush & Flo).
Sorry, it was not intended to indicate Billy Sharp as a sure thing!

I think it`s obvious that Bielsa will look to Bamford as first priority for the rest of the season and that the guy we bring in will be second choice. Therefore:
If we compare Sharp (380 minutes of first team football this season) with Adams (850 minutes of first team football this season) and Gayle (180 minutes of first team football this season) I think the big difference is that Billy Sharp would only be a short term thing, while the two others would come with an obligation of a big transfer fee if promoted. Then we would have to spend maybe 15m on a striker that possibly isn`t good enough for the Premiership!
When it comes to spending big money I think that we should only do that on players which is likely to make it also in the PL. A player like Bowen for example would in my eyes be that kind of player, not Dwight Gayle. But if players like Bowen is not availible, I would rather go for a cheap short term option like Sharp than an expensive long term option like Gayle. Getting new players in is always a risk, and I don`t think it`s obvious that Gayle would fit our team better than Sharp and the economical risk with Gayle would not be worth it I believe.

The point i tried to make was that I think it`s a bad idea to spend big money (or make obligations for spending big moneys) on a player that would possibly be second choice and which would be a big economical factor IF we go up.
Leicester White
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by Leicester White »

Selby White wrote:
Polkadot wrote:
Selby White wrote:Even a 4 month loan I would be against, recruit with a view to the future is my preferred option, if impossible deal with it with the players we have (that have took us to 2nd in the league).
I totally understand your view, but:

IF (and there is a big if) we`re going up to Premier League we will be able to buy a striker in the summer window that is on another level than the strikers availible for us now. Let`s say that the striker we bring in help us achieve promotions, the options are 1) sign Sharp on a loan deal until the end of season. Then we`re free to search for a better striker in the summer window as a Premier League club and can attract players at a whole different level, or 2) sign Dwight Gayle with an obligation to buy in the summer. Then we`re forced to spend a lot of money on a striker which possibly isn`t good enough for the Championship.

So my point is, if we can`t bring in a player that can contribute NOW and in the Premiership it`s better to look short term.
Seriously how can you be sure Sharp will produce surely given the very limited game time he's had it will take game time for him to get up to speed.
Scoring history means nothing, older players quite often don't produce former glories with failed with that route before (eg, Rush & Flo).
I felt somewhat the same about Robbie Fowler although his scoring record doesn't show that. Difference is we had Viduka, Smith & Keene all in their prime at the time, making it a colossal waste of money. Sharp on a short term loan could be good business now and he has scored in the premier league this season unlike Gayle.
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Leonickroberts
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by Leonickroberts »

For anyone who subscribes to The Athletic, the Phil Hay/TSB podcast today is a brilliant and balanced overview of how the club approach transfers generally and the mechanics of scouting.
For the benefit of non-subscribers:

Broadly it was a good a reminder that contrary to the haphazard, reactive, poorly resourced strategy many fans think we take to transfers, the way Leeds approach things is the same as many elite Premier League clubs, with 6 full-time and 6 part-time scouts and a European and lower-league network, regular use of multiple scouting database programmes, and forward planning for future transfer windows (i.e. aggressive scouting in the first 6 months of the calendar year in order to make quick moves in the summer when theres more liquidity in the market.

They point out that if you look back at the Summer window we did all our major business within the first week or two. Only Nketiah and Meslier came in later on, and Meslier was signed within 4 days of BPF being sold (for a big fee).

January is obviously a totally different affair. Players are only available when their clubs don't want them, which limits the number of options in a given position to a handful that most fans can figure out themselves. Phil Hay also noted that Bielsa would rather have nobody than a player who didn't fit the system. While the lack of flexibility can be frustrating, Nketiah showed that it can be really expensive having players on the books who don't play, and we all know from the past how much having non-playing egos can mangle the dressing room atmosphere.

The other interesting thing that was said was Howard Wilkinson's old quote on the hit-rate of transfers. His view is that if you have a 50% success rate with players brought in, you've done remarkably well, and that 20-30% wasn't awful. Obviously there's a question of scale there, but it does reinforce that fans often expect too much of what is effectively a very difficult personnel market to operate in.

Obviously the club have made mistakes with transfers, but the pod did make me think that broadly we're not in a bad place structurally to be able to recruit what we need, when we need it. We're a big draw for many players (e.g. Adams agitating for an exit to drop down a division), and don't seem to be regularly beaten to targets on financial grounds. This window, we just need a bit of luck, like every other team in our position.
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isrodger
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by isrodger »

Leonickroberts wrote:For anyone who subscribes to The Athletic, the Phil Hay/TSB podcast today is a brilliant and balanced overview of how the club approach transfers generally and the mechanics of scouting.
For the benefit of non-subscribers:

Broadly it was a good a reminder that contrary to the haphazard, reactive, poorly resourced strategy many fans think we take to transfers, the way Leeds approach things is the same as many elite Premier League clubs, with 6 full-time and 6 part-time scouts and a European and lower-league network, regular use of multiple scouting database programmes, and forward planning for future transfer windows (i.e. aggressive scouting in the first 6 months of the calendar year in order to make quick moves in the summer when theres more liquidity in the market.

They point out that if you look back at the Summer window we did all our major business within the first week or two. Only Nketiah and Meslier came in later on, and Meslier was signed within 4 days of BPF being sold (for a big fee).

January is obviously a totally different affair. Players are only available when their clubs don't want them, which limits the number of options in a given position to a handful that most fans can figure out themselves. Phil Hay also noted that Bielsa would rather have nobody than a player who didn't fit the system. While the lack of flexibility can be frustrating, Nketiah showed that it can be really expensive having players on the books who don't play, and we all know from the past how much having non-playing egos can mangle the dressing room atmosphere.

The other interesting thing that was said was Howard Wilkinson's old quote on the hit-rate of transfers. His view is that if you have a 50% success rate with players brought in, you've done remarkably well, and that 20-30% wasn't awful. Obviously there's a question of scale there, but it does reinforce that fans often expect too much of what is effectively a very difficult personnel market to operate in.

Obviously the club have made mistakes with transfers, but the pod did make me think that broadly we're not in a bad place structurally to be able to recruit what we need, when we need it. We're a big draw for many players (e.g. Adams agitating for an exit to drop down a division), and don't seem to be regularly beaten to targets on financial grounds. This window, we just need a bit of luck, like every other team in our position.
Hay is always insightful - I would the additional one player we didn’t sign who bielsa wanted Kent, & there was no initial intention of selling Roofe. Bizarrely I understand even once Roofe had left Bielsa was still pressing for Kent head of Nketiah (winger overload ?.)

Off subject - just noticed Ryan Woods just gone to millwall on loan - was great at Brentford- would have possibly been a good understudy for Philips in the run in.
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by Deleted User 728 »

Not sure about Wilko's numbers there for the modern game. They may have been acceptable in his day when wages, transfer and agent fees were much, much lower, but in today's market the stakes are a lot higher but then so too is the quality of the tools at a club's disposal.

Sports science has come on a bundle for one thing, then there's the psychological profiling that employers in all walks of life are now using, plus data analysis has mushroomed into an industry in itself .. all these things mean the chances of signing a duffer should be a lot less.

The problem can often arise when a player is signed to fit one manager's system, tactics or style of play but is then surplus to requirements for the next man in the hot seat. With manager turnover higher than ever, a whole raft of players look like poor value for money when they're really round holes being forced into square pegs .. or just left to rot in the reserves. Think Danny Drinkwater. Think Man United.

The purity of Bielsa's vision is a wonderful thing but it doesn't really sit that well with fans who want signings every time the window opens.
DominanceUK
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by DominanceUK »

Malik Wilks has joined Hull on loan with a view to a permanent move in the summer, interesting given he plays the same position as Bowen...
isrodger
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by isrodger »

DominanceUK wrote:Malik Wilks has joined Hull on loan with a view to a permanent move in the summer, interesting given he plays the same position as Bowen...
I get the impression Wilks is a bad boy, big time Charlie. McCann had him firing at Donny so he may be able to get the best out of him. Bowen looks like he’s going, given half the premiership has looked at him I would be surprised if his agent isn’t wanting £40k per week for his wages, but he’s the quality level we need, wether another winger is the priority is a different matter.
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