2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Leeds United news here, transfer rumours, club affairs, players, fans, etc.
Specific match discussions should go in the category below.
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SCOTTISH LEEDS
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by SCOTTISH LEEDS »

rigger wrote:Every club is a selling club, even Real and Barca - Neymar to PSG anyone ??

I agree with Phoenix and Nic in that each player has a value to the team (ie how much would it cost to replace them) and also a value on the open market (ie how much would it cost for another club to buy them) and they should be a fair distance apart.

The ideal scenario would be not to sell any of the key players, but if we do we should look to double their value to the team, eg if we think we could replace Phillips for £10m but sell him for £20m then we would be foolish not to look at selling at that price.

It's never that simple but football is a pyramid in more ways than just the league structure.
We've just got to make sure our scouting and recruitment is good enough to be canny players in the game ..
Diaz, Gotts, McCalmont and even Shackleton could come in from the under 23s and replace Phillips if he goes for £20m+.

There are ready made replacements in the under 23s if we sell anyone so dont have to buy anyone.
isrodger
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by isrodger »

johnh wrote:
rigger wrote:Every club is a selling club, even Real and Barca - Neymar to PSG anyone ??

I agree with Phoenix and Nic in that each player has a value to the team (ie how much would it cost to replace them) and also a value on the open market (ie how much would it cost for another club to buy them) and they should be a fair distance apart.

The ideal scenario would be not to sell any of the key players, but if we do we should look to double their value to the team, eg if we think we could replace Phillips for £10m but sell him for £20m then we would be foolish not to look at selling at that price.

It's never that simple but football is a pyramid in more ways than just the league structure.
We've just got to make sure our scouting and recruitment is good enough to be canny players in the game ..
That's OK if we can replace him with as good a player (or better) but the risk is, as with Woods, that we get a Bamford.
And that’s it in a nutshell. Our transfer dealings in terms of 1st team recruitment are not that great are they? (Actually we ought to recruit the DOF from Norwich or Brentford - separate topic).

It’s somewhat of an unfair comparison as they wanted to go, however we sold wood on £18k Pw for £18m and replaced him with Bamford for £10mon £30k pw. We sold Taylor £4.5m and replaced him with Le Bock £1.75m and Douglas £3m. Woods goals would have seen us up last season.

It’s hard enough recruiting quality young players, (which we have failed to do) let alone pushing them out the
door when they have no great desire to leave a la Viera.

The point about the kids coming through may be valid, but none are direct replacements and they are likely to need a season or 2 to mature.....at which point we will have failed to get promoted again and Bournemouth will be in for them!

We have to hold firm like villa did with Grealish.
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by Deleted User 728 »

I'm not sure if that's true about Villa "holding firm", John.
I heard Grealish himself on a podcast the other day talking about how he thought he was off to Spurs - he'd packed and was ready to go to London when it fell through for some reason. They weren't talking directly about the transfer but about him reaching the Prem so he didn't elaborate on why it didn't happen.
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by Deleted User 728 »

isrodger wrote:
rigger wrote:Every club is a selling club, even Real and Barca - Neymar to PSG anyone ??

I agree with Phoenix and Nic in that each player has a value to the team (ie how much would it cost to replace them) and also a value on the open market (ie how much would it cost for another club to buy them) and they should be a fair distance apart.

The ideal scenario would be not to sell any of the key players, but if we do we should look to double their value to the team, eg if we think we could replace Phillips for £10m but sell him for £20m then we would be foolish not to look at selling at that price.

It's never that simple but football is a pyramid in more ways than just the league structure.
We've just got to make sure our scouting and recruitment is good enough to be canny players in the game ..
So PSG aren’t then :D and they want to buy us :clap:
I see your sarcastic applause and I raise you Kylian Mbappé to Barcelona/Real/City/Liverpool this summer :ugeek:
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by Deleted User 728 »

isrodger wrote:
PhoenixUnited wrote:
bedfordwhites wrote:Keep Phillips at all costs, if we are serious about promotion got to keep our best players, offer him new contract, tie him down for whatever it takes, build the side around him, along with Shackleton, Clarke, the future is looking good. Bielsa got the team playing lovely football this season, mainly attributed to the way Phillips fitted in to the system. keep most of the squad from this season, add probably another winger, forward, central defender & goalkeeper. MOT.
Every player has a price and also a value - elements that are not necessarily the same thing. Also, there is a point where the player decides that the grass is greener somewhere else in which case it becomes a pointless exercise in trying to hold on to him; best thing to do in these circumstances is to get the best deal possible. Some of us will remember the Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink sale to Atletico Madrid. There can never be a "no way, no how" senario.

Personally, I think no player is bigger than the club no matter good they are and also any player will be here today and gone tomorrow. So on that basis if a bid comes in for Phillips that is on balance beneficial for LUFC then we have to move on and do the business. I can accept there is a need for stability and for the Club to grow but this is where the Owners and Head Coach earn their corn and where they should be judged on their decision making.

The good thing is that we have the essence of stability and not in the fire sale or asset stripping mindset of recent times.
2 points

Firstly, If we could sell the likes of Clarke & Philips for 20m and could bring in replacements close direct replacements say Harry Wilson & Reece James for £10m. Those players probably wouldn't want to play for Leeds in the championship & would want salaries 3 to 5 times the incumbents presently get.

Secondly, maybe we should expect our owner to show the ambition the likes of Morris, Lansdown, Gibson even Hoyle showed and support the club financially by injecting capital to maximum permitted to ensure the club has the optimum chance of competing in the division and gaining promotion. Instead of trading players of premiership quality and replacing them with players of inferior quality and using the balance to fund operating costs.
To answer your first point :
As I said in my post on this, you sell for £20m and you replace for £10m with canny recruitment.
Don't just pick a loanee from the EPL, look for a hungry talent from another Championship club, lower league or abroad.
I actually like John suggestion of nicking Norwich or Brentford's DoF rather than relying on Orta, though the jury's still out on him.

For the second :
If history has taught us anything, it's don't spend a lot of money on goldfish.
I don't want us to spend to the maximum : I don't think we need to under Bielsa and I just think it's immoral to been seen to do that or else we can't compete.
Plenty of businesses around the world do things differently and succeed. I'd rather be one of them than just throw money at everything ..
It doesn't mean Radrizzani is any less ambitious, just a bit more prudent.

In fact, to take it even further, Steve Landsdown is rolling in it but he hasn't gone mental with City but prefers to play the long game to promotion.
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johnh
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by johnh »

Rigger, you have credited me with two points made by isrodger. Grealish and nicking a DoF. Unless, of course, isrodger's name is John. :lol:
I once played against Don Revie.
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by zigzag »

Although every player has a price, and a value to the team, and as Rigger says when that gap becomes sufficiently large then it can be wise to view a bigger picture (such as club finances, availability and cost of replacements, player attitude, managers view of the squad) and make a decision. No player stays forever, they are an asset, and its about maximising your return on the asset when the time is right to dispose of it.

I do not mind any player moving on IF the price is right. But at Leeds we do seem to have a habit of taking a low offer when other clubs seem to be able to get much larger fees for players of less ability, maybe our finances are such that we cannot afford to push negotiatons to the limit, I dont know.

Whilst nothing has happend regarding KP or any other transfers I do see this summer as a litmus test for Radz. If we are foreced sell KP in order to either balance the books or fund incoming transfers, for anything less than what we would consider silly money, when there has been talk of capital injection from a third party (albeit from QSI who Im extremely dubious about), then that would worry me about how the club sees the best way to move forward.

Im not for going all out at the expense of ruining the club again, or incurring an FFP penalty, but we all know we were so close, that retaining those of the current squad who MB wants, and prudently adding quality/investing in the squad is probably what we need (always remembering that this is football and there are no guarantees of promotion no matter what investment). This is a time to capitalise on last season, not to retrench. We dont need need to break the bank, but we do need need to recognise that this is a time to build on the foundations of last season, not to sell off part of them, and if we dont build then those foundations will soon disappear. We all know that other owners would, having got so close, be pushing very hard this summer in order to have the best possible chance next season, I just hope that Radz sees it this way too.

Its early in the summer, nothing has happened yet, it could all be paper talk, but I want us to build on last season not to have to start another rebuilding job (and I havent dared think what MB might do if key players are sold).

Rambling, but in summary we need to strike whilst the iron is hot, not put it in cold water and try to heat it up again.
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by isrodger »

rigger wrote:
isrodger wrote:
PhoenixUnited wrote:
bedfordwhites wrote:Keep Phillips at all costs, if we are serious about promotion got to keep our best players, offer him new contract, tie him down for whatever it takes, build the side around him, along with Shackleton, Clarke, the future is looking good. Bielsa got the team playing lovely football this season, mainly attributed to the way Phillips fitted in to the system. keep most of the squad from this season, add probably another winger, forward, central defender & goalkeeper. MOT.
Every player has a price and also a value - elements that are not necessarily the same thing. Also, there is a point where the player decides that the grass is greener somewhere else in which case it becomes a pointless exercise in trying to hold on to him; best thing to do in these circumstances is to get the best deal possible. Some of us will remember the Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink sale to Atletico Madrid. There can never be a "no way, no how" senario.

Personally, I think no player is bigger than the club no matter good they are and also any player will be here today and gone tomorrow. So on that basis if a bid comes in for Phillips that is on balance beneficial for LUFC then we have to move on and do the business. I can accept there is a need for stability and for the Club to grow but this is where the Owners and Head Coach earn their corn and where they should be judged on their decision making.

The good thing is that we have the essence of stability and not in the fire sale or asset stripping mindset of recent times.
2 points

Firstly, If we could sell the likes of Clarke & Philips for 20m and could bring in replacements close direct replacements say Harry Wilson & Reece James for £10m. Those players probably wouldn't want to play for Leeds in the championship & would want salaries 3 to 5 times the incumbents presently get.

Secondly, maybe we should expect our owner to show the ambition the likes of Morris, Lansdown, Gibson even Hoyle showed and support the club financially by injecting capital to maximum permitted to ensure the club has the optimum chance of competing in the division and gaining promotion. Instead of trading players of premiership quality and replacing them with players of inferior quality and using the balance to fund operating costs.
To answer your first point :
As I said in my post on this, you sell for £20m and you replace for £10m with canny recruitment.
Don't just pick a loanee from the EPL, look for a hungry talent from another Championship club, lower league or abroad.
I actually like John suggestion of nicking Norwich or Brentford's DoF rather than relying on Orta, though the jury's still out on him.

For the second :
If history has taught us anything, it's don't spend a lot of money on goldfish.
I don't want us to spend to the maximum : I don't think we need to under Bielsa and I just think it's immoral to been seen to do that or else we can't compete.
Plenty of businesses around the world do things differently and succeed. I'd rather be one of them than just throw money at everything ..
It doesn't mean Radrizzani is any less ambitious, just a bit more prudent.

In fact, to take it even further, Steve Landsdown is rolling in it but he hasn't gone mental with City but prefers to play the long game to promotion.
As I said Brentford trade exceptionally well and Stuart Webber is proven at 2 clubs now. Jury is out on Orta, however in fairness to him we falter when entering the market by not putting our money where our mouth is most visible with James, however I know Clarke @ Pompey has been watched and wanted for 6 months, and has now gone for more than double the price we could have had him for in January.

Re - lansdown he is a good example .... firstly he’s bought the club, secondly funded a new stadium and thirdly he funds the club to the tune of £10-£12m per annum. Which he loans the club and capitalises as do other chairman, meaning he ultimately writes off the loan until someone buys the club off him. Presently Radz has bought the club, and funded operating costs from player sales or by selling a chunk of his equity. We are disadvantaged as he doesn’t fund the club like other chairmen.

As for the ground he may be well intentioned, however he owns it now. We have no guarantee he won’t sell it to jack Adler Mark 2 for a handsome profit, or lease it to us for 5 times the previous rent going forward.
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by Deleted User 728 »

isrodger wrote:lansdown .... funds the club to the tune of £10-£12m per annum.
So not the full £30m you're suggesting Radz should provide ??

Like I said, he plays the long game and I'd prefer us to do the same.
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Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by Deleted User 728 »

isrodger wrote: ... not putting our money where our mouth is most visible with James ...

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