2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Leeds United news here, transfer rumours, club affairs, players, fans, etc.
Specific match discussions should go in the category below.
isrodger
Howard Wilkinson's military attaché
Posts: 4177
Joined: 25 May 2009, 09:57

Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by isrodger »

Leonickroberts wrote:
Wigan White wrote:
bgd wrote:
isrodger wrote:If we have failed to sign Adams as widely reported, then it appears to be yet another example of what an absolute shambles we appear to be in the transfer market. It’s not the fact we shoot ourself in the foot - it’s the speed we reload and do it again!
Oh come on, give it a rest for a day, ISR. It sounds like Bielsa identified a top target from day one, we've gone after him since, matched their requirements, but will be stumped by the manager holding his ground. What else could they have done in your opinion, just up to this point, this month? It sounds like we're pre-empting it with going after additional targets already even before they've rejected the second bid, so what much more can they do, when Bielsa is notoriously particular about what players he wants anyway?

The bringing up of Roofe so frequently is tiresome too, even going by the consideration it was wrong call (not that it would have been a binary call that wouldn't have influenced subsequent transfers), why not just judge the club on what they do here and now, rather than constantly rehashing the same discontent from last summer? I can't be the only one that finds it really tiresome, and I only just land on the odd post on here every once in a while.
You beat me to it bgd. :thumbup:
Me and all. Do you get anything from supporting Leeds ISR? Of course things can always get better, but you don't seem to rate the squad, you hate Victor Orta, you complain about Bielsa's tactical rigidity (in spite of the fact we're second in the league), and you constantly complain about Radrizzani even though we're in an infinitely better position than we have been for 15 years both on and off the pitch.

We must be the only team with a song that explicitly references the "ups and downs" of supporting a football club, and that's how many of us see it. Your analysis is always well considered and insightful, but its universally negative, and genuinely discourages me from reading these threads, which are otherwise full of nuanced and balanced opinions.

I will come back to you on that in terms of the squad, with the exception of the kids & Hernandez too old. I only believe we have 2 real premiership quality players in Philips and White. Ayling & Harrison may cut the mustard at a lower level Prem team, Costa has better raw ingredients than Harrison, so may progress next season.

I have consistently called bielsa a genius & the team is only where it is as a result of him, in my opinion. He’s not without faults, which is why he’s at Leeds not Mardrid & why he’s won very few trophies. He imo lacks a degree of pragmatism on occasions, and fails to address weaknesses that most of us agree are plain to see. Our conversion stats at both ends of the pitch are lower quartile. I think he made a bad call as regards Jansson & I believe he should have managed the player better.

I don’t get why you said I hate Orta, his recruitment approach at junior level is yet to reap dividends, so has to be questioned. At a more senior level he has been hamstrung as a result of a lack of funding; which led us to missing out on some real talents his analytics / recruitment team identified - Keane, Haaland and the one he uses at lectures James. I would argue that the best 11 players to play for the club over the past 3 years (white apart) were at the club before he arrived.

Radz - yes the club is in a healthier position. However, I would expect any owner who purchases the club to have sufficient funding to see the job through. He clearly hasn’t. Would you have a deal in place to buy a car for £5k today and back out in favour of a deal to pay £1.5k today and a further £5k in July? He has sold every player with the exception of Philips who he’s received decent money offers for, he raked in £30m in the summer and spent £250k on transfer fees. Having purchased the club and the ground (in a separate legal entity) I don’t believe he’s invested a penny bar diluting himself with the sale of shares to the 49rs.

He made great play of him having the opportunity to follow the Wolves model given his connections. I’m not sure their model actually was based upon selling in excess of £60m of players and relying on loan to buys. That said if he sells to his Qatari mate I will applaud just as City Fans did Shinawatra.
Polkadot
Eddie Gray's leftorium proprietor
Posts: 813
Joined: 13 Sep 2016, 11:22

Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by Polkadot »

isrodger wrote: I only believe we have 2 real premiership quality players in Philips and White. Ayling & Harrison may cut the mustard at a lower level Prem team, Costa has better raw ingredients than Harrison, so may progress next season.
But we are a Championship team, and how many Championship team have more than 2 "real Premiership quality players"?

I also think there is a lot of people underestimating the quality of a guy like Klich. He has 23 caps for Poland, and Poland is a good national team with some very good midfielders. I`m pretty sure a he would do very well also at Premiership level.
Deleted User 3289

Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by Deleted User 3289 »

bgd wrote:
isrodger wrote:If we have failed to sign Adams as widely reported, then it appears to be yet another example of what an absolute shambles we appear to be in the transfer market. It’s not the fact we shoot ourself in the foot - it’s the speed we reload and do it again!
Oh come on, give it a rest for a day, ISR. It sounds like Bielsa identified a top target from day one, we've gone after him since, matched their requirements, but will be stumped by the manager holding his ground. What else could they have done in your opinion, just up to this point, this month? It sounds like we're pre-empting it with going after additional targets already even before they've rejected the second bid, so what much more can they do, when Bielsa is notoriously particular about what players he wants anyway?

The bringing up of Roofe so frequently is tiresome too, even going by the consideration it was wrong call (not that it would have been a binary call that wouldn't have influenced subsequent transfers), why not just judge the club on what they do here and now, rather than constantly rehashing the same discontent from last summer? I can't be the only one that finds it really tiresome, and I only just land on the odd post on here every once in a while.
I think i'm right in saying that Orta draws up a list of players based on how we play and then Bielsa chooses his targets in order? So the targeted players are essentially down to Orta not Bielsa?
Deleted User 3289

Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by Deleted User 3289 »

Polkadot wrote:
isrodger wrote: I only believe we have 2 real premiership quality players in Philips and White. Ayling & Harrison may cut the mustard at a lower level Prem team, Costa has better raw ingredients than Harrison, so may progress next season.
But we are a Championship team, and how many Championship team have more than 2 "real Premiership quality players"?

I also think there is a lot of people underestimating the quality of a guy like Klich. He has 23 caps for Poland, and Poland is a good national team with some very good midfielders. I`m pretty sure a he would do very well also at Premiership level.
Fair play Polkadot. Klich is a good player who would hold his own imo in the prem.
bgd
Paul Heckingbottom's career advisor
Posts: 182
Joined: 08 Nov 2013, 10:46

Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by bgd »

isrodger wrote: I only believe we have 2 real premiership quality players in Philips and White. Ayling & Harrison may cut the mustard at a lower level Prem team, Costa has better raw ingredients than Harrison, so may progress next season.
That's neither here nor there. X or Y being "Premier League quality" is pub and talksport chat, we all have an opinion on it, but it matters not one jot. And how many "PL quality" players did most of us think Sheffield United had at the end of May last year, I wonder?
isrodger wrote:I think he made a bad call as regards Jansson & I believe he should have managed the player better.
White has qualities Jansson didn't have, and vice versa. Again, the kind of opinion that you could go back and forth on, but doesn't really matter, the team has evolved since then and 27 games into this season it's talking scenarios for the sake of it.
isrodger wrote:he raked in £30m in the summer and spent £250k on transfer fees
Right, because flat out transfer fees are the only expense in players that clubs make these days. Look around in the division, loans are the bread and butter of it for a lot of teams without parachute payments, and some of the ones with. You're simplifying quite a complex issue for the sake of your argument.

All of it adds up to nothing that would warrant anything at the club to be called a shambles. Cellino (whom you adored) created a shambles of a club. Oystons, Duchatelet, that's the kind of club stewardship that warrants such words. You've got enough nous to know businesses are complicated things, yet we demand instant gratification in the transfer market week after week.

We're 18 months into an ownership-coach model that's giving us exhilarating football almost every single week and has made us top-of-the-table competitive for two seasons in a row. I choose to enjoy it and accept that things are the way they are, and it's clear we're not shaped to outspend our way out of the division. It's never been Bielsa's way in the past, so why would I expect him or Radrizzani to change all of a sudden? Enjoy it, Ian, it won't last forever. All the best.
HalifaxWhite
David O'Leary's baby-sitter
Posts: 704
Joined: 14 Aug 2015, 10:35

Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by HalifaxWhite »

isrodger wrote:
bgd wrote:
isrodger wrote:If we have failed to sign Adams as widely reported, then it appears to be yet another example of what an absolute shambles we appear to be in the transfer market. It’s not the fact we shoot ourself in the foot - it’s the speed we reload and do it again!
Oh come on, give it a rest for a day, ISR. It sounds like Bielsa identified a top target from day one, we've gone after him since, matched their requirements, but will be stumped by the manager holding his ground. What else could they have done in your opinion, just up to this point, this month? It sounds like we're pre-empting it with going after additional targets already even before they've rejected the second bid, so what much more can they do, when Bielsa is notoriously particular about what players he wants anyway?

The bringing up of Roofe so frequently is tiresome too, even going by the consideration it was wrong call (not that it would have been a binary call that wouldn't have influenced subsequent transfers), why not just judge the club on what they do here and now, rather than constantly rehashing the same discontent from last summer? I can't be the only one that finds it really tiresome, and I only just land on the odd post on here every once in a while.
I will tell you what they could have done is either had a deal in place for Bielsas #1 target at the end of December, and actually established that he was available, or not at that point; allowing us to move on to to other targets, as he’s clearly in the managers plans. Rather like what they had in place with James (until Radz couldn’t come up with the £5m on January 1st as agreed). We have got one forward, filling the position could be absolutely critical to the long term future of the club.

As regards judging the club by what they have done now... well that is at present SFA... apart from failing again to sign the number 1 target of the transfer window.
ISR why don't you own a club? You seem such an astute businessman. You seem to have knowledge of exactly what was in place with the James deal last year somehow too. How do you know for a fact a deal was agreed and on the 1st Jan Radz bottled it? How could you know that?

I think what people are trying to say is the vast majority of your posting is negative and it gets annoying.

We are second in the league still and the window is still open. That's all that matters right now.
HalifaxWhite
David O'Leary's baby-sitter
Posts: 704
Joined: 14 Aug 2015, 10:35

Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by HalifaxWhite »

Also all the talk of income and no spend. You forget too easy that we have agreed to pay 15mil for Costa which at the time was a very bold ambitious move and seemed a no brainier. Not their fault it has taken time to get up to speed for him. Also going after che Adams is a big move too. Not their fault it hasn't worked out.
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Selby White
LUFCTALK Moderator
Posts: 17206
Joined: 25 Mar 2012, 11:32

Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by Selby White »

Wigan White wrote:
Selby White wrote:We are still odds on with the bookies to sign Adams 4/9 with Sky Bet.

Interesting odds are plummeting that we will sign Andre Gray, now 11/8 favs.
Wouldn't both be nice. :D
Adams odds gone out slightly to 4/5, still odds on though.
Gray come in slightly to 5/4.
Keep your face always toward the sunshine - and shadows will fall behind you.
DominanceUK
Arthur Fairclough's milliner
Posts: 2368
Joined: 11 Aug 2014, 16:33

Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by DominanceUK »

HalifaxWhite wrote:
isrodger wrote:
bgd wrote:
isrodger wrote:If we have failed to sign Adams as widely reported, then it appears to be yet another example of what an absolute shambles we appear to be in the transfer market. It’s not the fact we shoot ourself in the foot - it’s the speed we reload and do it again!
Oh come on, give it a rest for a day, ISR. It sounds like Bielsa identified a top target from day one, we've gone after him since, matched their requirements, but will be stumped by the manager holding his ground. What else could they have done in your opinion, just up to this point, this month? It sounds like we're pre-empting it with going after additional targets already even before they've rejected the second bid, so what much more can they do, when Bielsa is notoriously particular about what players he wants anyway?

The bringing up of Roofe so frequently is tiresome too, even going by the consideration it was wrong call (not that it would have been a binary call that wouldn't have influenced subsequent transfers), why not just judge the club on what they do here and now, rather than constantly rehashing the same discontent from last summer? I can't be the only one that finds it really tiresome, and I only just land on the odd post on here every once in a while.
I will tell you what they could have done is either had a deal in place for Bielsas #1 target at the end of December, and actually established that he was available, or not at that point; allowing us to move on to to other targets, as he’s clearly in the managers plans. Rather like what they had in place with James (until Radz couldn’t come up with the £5m on January 1st as agreed). We have got one forward, filling the position could be absolutely critical to the long term future of the club.

As regards judging the club by what they have done now... well that is at present SFA... apart from failing again to sign the number 1 target of the transfer window.
ISR why don't you own a club? You seem such an astute businessman. You seem to have knowledge of exactly what was in place with the James deal last year somehow too. How do you know for a fact a deal was agreed and on the 1st Jan Radz bottled it? How could you know that?

I think what people are trying to say is the vast majority of your posting is negative and it gets annoying.

We are second in the league still and the window is still open. That's all that matters right now.
I agree with your last comment, pal. Most of us have that feeling of deja vu, we don't want a repeat of last years window. I don't agree that most of ISR's comments are negative, I don't think that there is anybody on this forum that does that very thing but hey-ho! Apparently we knew Eddie was leaving in Jan a week before Xmas. Yes, we identified Che Adams but surely we had contingency plans in place? From where I'm sitting, from what I've seen so far, I don't think that is the case which I find absolutely unbelievable. 2 weeks and counting, we will soon find out, here's hoping.
isrodger
Howard Wilkinson's military attaché
Posts: 4177
Joined: 25 May 2009, 09:57

Re: 2019-20 Transfer News and Squad Discussions

Post by isrodger »

HalifaxWhite wrote:
isrodger wrote:
bgd wrote:
isrodger wrote:If we have failed to sign Adams as widely reported, then it appears to be yet another example of what an absolute shambles we appear to be in the transfer market. It’s not the fact we shoot ourself in the foot - it’s the speed we reload and do it again!
Oh come on, give it a rest for a day, ISR. It sounds like Bielsa identified a top target from day one, we've gone after him since, matched their requirements, but will be stumped by the manager holding his ground. What else could they have done in your opinion, just up to this point, this month? It sounds like we're pre-empting it with going after additional targets already even before they've rejected the second bid, so what much more can they do, when Bielsa is notoriously particular about what players he wants anyway?

The bringing up of Roofe so frequently is tiresome too, even going by the consideration it was wrong call (not that it would have been a binary call that wouldn't have influenced subsequent transfers), why not just judge the club on what they do here and now, rather than constantly rehashing the same discontent from last summer? I can't be the only one that finds it really tiresome, and I only just land on the odd post on here every once in a while.
I will tell you what they could have done is either had a deal in place for Bielsas #1 target at the end of December, and actually established that he was available, or not at that point; allowing us to move on to to other targets, as he’s clearly in the managers plans. Rather like what they had in place with James (until Radz couldn’t come up with the £5m on January 1st as agreed). We have got one forward, filling the position could be absolutely critical to the long term future of the club.

As regards judging the club by what they have done now... well that is at present SFA... apart from failing again to sign the number 1 target of the transfer window.
ISR why don't you own a club? You seem such an astute businessman. You seem to have knowledge of exactly what was in place with the James deal last year somehow too. How do you know for a fact a deal was agreed and on the 1st Jan Radz bottled it? How could you know that?

I think what people are trying to say is the vast majority of your posting is negative and it gets annoying.

We are second in the league still and the window is still open. That's all that matters right now.
As regards the James deal it was widely reported (Phil Hay & Huw Jenkins) that a £5m cash deal was agreed, we then came back requesting a loan to buy which was eventually agreed at £1.5m loan fee £5m on promotion in July. We then requested the loan fee was paid £750k in Jan, Balance of loan Fee in July - at that point Jenkins pulled out, eventually Radz agreed to pay the £1.5m immediately, however the seeds of doubt were set, other clubs had expressed and Jenkins went against the owners wishes in the last few hours of the 31st. Care what you wish to believe but that is what happened, had we stuck to the original agreement the lad would have been ours in early January.

It may be negative on the incomings - so let’s celebrate how successful we have been in the market then. Hopefully we’ve got rid of 2 of Ortas signings - £2.5/£2.75m on frees.

PS - someone mentioned we bought Costs for £15m - we loaned him - if we don’t go & Radz is still the owner - educated guess; Philips will be sold to pay for him.
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