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Re: FFP

Postby SCOTTISH LEEDS » 01 Aug 2019, 11:31

Am sure I read somewhere that Radz had said the the 2018-19 accounts were heading for a £15m loss which doesnt leave a lot of leeway in the 19-20 accounts.
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Re: FFP

Postby Another Northern Soul » 01 Aug 2019, 11:54

SCOTTISH LEEDS wrote:Am sure I read somewhere that Radz had said the the 2018-19 accounts were heading for a £15m loss which doesnt leave a lot of leeway in the 19-20 accounts.


I could well be wrong but I think that is the figure that has been mentioned quite a few times SL, that 'we made a £15m loss' and that AR has to sign a cheque of around £1m each month to keep the club ticking over. This was BBC media and not any hack online stuff.
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Re: FFP

Postby rigger » 01 Aug 2019, 12:09

Another Northern Soul wrote:This was BBC media and not any hack online stuff.


I would argue they are one and the same these days .. :problem:
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Re: FFP

Postby Another Northern Soul » 01 Aug 2019, 12:12

rigger wrote:
Another Northern Soul wrote:This was BBC media and not any hack online stuff.


I would argue they are one and the same these days .. :problem:


It was in conversation, face to face with certain people who are not hacks so go argue with someone else :P :angel: :thumbup:
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Re: FFP

Postby PhoenixUnited » 01 Aug 2019, 12:44

So, to summarise our position, unless something extraordinary happens, LUFC will remain paupers and continue to attempt to stave off complete poverty for the foreseeable future. In the meantime hope that the football on the pitch brings us all some cheer. :think: :wtf:
No worries! Let's just play with what we have got.

Whose shirt am I wearing Bruv?

Keep The Faith / WAL
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Re: FFP

Postby rigger » 01 Aug 2019, 13:01

We're a football club operating at the traditional level, ie with a - by most people's standards - rich owner who has a finite amount of money and a budget to match it.

Paupers are Bury, Notts County and Bolton .. and all the other clubs who've nearly been or actually been made bankrupt by mismanagement (including us in the past, obviously).

Not every club can win things.
Not every club can be owned by a billionaire.
We're not paupers.
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Re: FFP

Postby Another Northern Soul » 01 Aug 2019, 13:08

PhoenixUnited wrote:So, to summarise our position, unless something extraordinary happens, LUFC will remain paupers and continue to attempt to stave off complete poverty for the foreseeable future. In the meantime hope that the football on the pitch brings us all some cheer. :think: :wtf:


Blimey mate :o :angel:

Thought of ever going into journalism - to write Obituaries?

Sorry, I am 100% joshing there :D
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Re: FFP

Postby PhoenixUnited » 01 Aug 2019, 16:09

Another Northern Soul wrote:
PhoenixUnited wrote:So, to summarise our position, unless something extraordinary happens, LUFC will remain paupers and continue to attempt to stave off complete poverty for the foreseeable future. In the meantime hope that the football on the pitch brings us all some cheer. :think: :wtf:


Blimey mate :o :angel:

Thought of ever going into journalism - to write Obituaries?

Sorry, I am 100% joshing there :D

Obituaries!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think I was joshing too! :D

Come what may I really don't care. LUFC have been my team, are my team and always will be.

Some years ago, during the Bates era there was a real chance that we would go to the wall. My mates were asking who I would support instead and I could not even think about an alternative for a second. Leeds till I die!

As it stands if we have a season like the last one and carry on as we are, it'll be good enough for me.

Just finally, there are some on this forum who are deadly serious about everything and if that is who they are it's OK. Sometimes though it pays to remember that this here is a bit of fun and it's meant to be enjoyable. Sometimes that includes gently taking the Michael. That's why I keep putting my two pennyworth in. All in all never an offence given nor any taken. :angel:

Can't wait for kick off!
No worries! Let's just play with what we have got.

Whose shirt am I wearing Bruv?

Keep The Faith / WAL
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Re: FFP

Postby Another Northern Soul » 01 Aug 2019, 17:36

PhoenixUnited wrote:
Another Northern Soul wrote:
PhoenixUnited wrote:So, to summarise our position, unless something extraordinary happens, LUFC will remain paupers and continue to attempt to stave off complete poverty for the foreseeable future. In the meantime hope that the football on the pitch brings us all some cheer. :think: :wtf:


Blimey mate :o :angel:

Thought of ever going into journalism - to write Obituaries?

Sorry, I am 100% joshing there :D

Obituaries!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

I think I was joshing too! :D

Come what may I really don't care. LUFC have been my team, are my team and always will be.

Some years ago, during the Bates era there was a real chance that we would go to the wall. My mates were asking who I would support instead and I could not even think about an alternative for a second. Leeds till I die!

As it stands if we have a season like the last one and carry on as we are, it'll be good enough for me.

Just finally, there are some on this forum who are deadly serious about everything and if that is who they are it's OK. Sometimes though it pays to remember that this here is a bit of fun and it's meant to be enjoyable. Sometimes that includes gently taking the Michael. That's why I keep putting my two pennyworth in. All in all never an offence given nor any taken. :angel:

Can't wait for kick off!


I will apologise again though mate. Everyone's two-penneth is welcome, might help the turnover for one thing :D
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Re: FFP

Postby isrodger » 02 Aug 2019, 09:01

EastYorkie wrote:I think its worth posting to counter some of the misunderstandings that have been posted above.

The timing of what has been described is incorrect.

The FFP rules (actually known as Profitability and Sustainability Rules for the Championship) are such that the clubs have to submit by March of each year the following P&L information.

Using this season as an example, in March 2020 the club will submit:-

P&L statement for 2017/2018 = -£4.3m

P&L statement for 2018/2019 = ? .......... as of now we simply don't know until the accounts are published in April 2020. But it has already been indicated that losses have gone up considerably, partly due to the wage bill having risen by £7m a year according to the club.

Forecasted P&L statement for 2019/2020 = ? ......... again we don't know but we could assume that losses might be similar to 2018/2019 on the basis that not much has changed before we start taking into account player sales and purchases.

So the reality is that none of us can make any decent assumption about where the club stands on FFP looking forwards. Only those people in the know at the club have the information available and you have to leave them to get on with it.

If we guessed that the increase in costs means the club will post a loss of -£10m for 2018/2019, then it could be the same for 2019/2020 and suddenly the club doesn't have as much room for manoeuvre as some might assume. Especially when you consider this rolls on year after year.

What the forecast will look like for 2019/2020 is a big issue and it depends on exactly when the club has committed to pay the £15m for Costa - I'm certainly not aware of anything the club has announced for this. It may fall into the 2019/2020 accounts or it may fall into the following year - it depends on what has been agreed with Wolves. It may also depend on whats best for managing the FFP issues for both Leeds and Wolves.

The other aspect of the forecast for 2019/2020 is what plans the club may have for the Janaury transfer window - again we simply don't know.

The top and bottom of this is that we simply don't know and can't really comment on FFP for LUFC until the next set of accounts are published in April 2020, which is after the January transfer window and we will know how this season is playing out.

Whether we have a billionaire or not in charge makes not a lot of difference as the whole purpose of these rules is to try and prevent seriously rich people gambling with players and clubs, loading them up with debts and then walking off into the sunset leaving the creditors out of pocket and the fans distraught because their once famous club has just been destroyed. These rules are aimed at limiting the damage seriously rich people can do to a club.

Whether Radz is being over cautious, prudent or missing a trick remains to be seen. I don't believe anyone on here truly knows the financial position of the club at this moment in time and is therefor just simplifying matters to make Radz look like a bad owner because that suits there own particular agenda.

Me, I'm keeping out of the bashing Radz debate because I simply don't know yet which way things will fall. Ask me again next April.


The point you make about us being blind and timing is well made.

That said, given that we generate the highest gate revenue and the highest commercial revenue in the division, and this has risen in 2019. Given our wage structure is at worst is on par with the likes of Derby, Wednesday, Bristol city etc; and we have more or less balanced the books in terms of income and expenditure in the transfer market (bar this summer where we have a £20m plus surplus).

Given we made a profit of £1m in 2017; loss of £4m 2018; then if we are in danger of breaching FFP in 2019 & 20, I would suggest the clubs cost base away from the 1st team squad is completely out of control.

It worthy of note an incompetent, rouge, with dubious habits & little management infrastructure was capable of turning a profit. If the present regime are in danger of losing £35m in two years, I suggest they are guilty of gross incompetence!

Secondly, re timing of production of statutory accounts. It beats my why the Football League don’t insist on these being issued by 31st October of the year in question. Walmart arguably the biggest company in the world, with 10’s of thousands of profit centres, manages to produce its year end accounts within 6 weeks of year end. A piddly little football club should be able to produce theirs sorted within a fortnight!
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