FFP

Leeds United news here, transfer rumours, club affairs, players, fans, etc.
Specific match discussions should go in the category below.

Re: FFP

Postby SCOTTISH LEEDS » 02 Aug 2019, 12:08

Interesting quote from MB about Pontus and FFP:-

Do you have enough cover at centre-back?

Jansson left, everyone knows. Jansson was the best player last season.

You know that the club needs to sell players to adapt to FFP and be healthy and the league is equal.
User avatar
SCOTTISH LEEDS
Howard Wilkinson's military attaché
 
Posts: 4296
Joined: 13 Nov 2013, 18:53
Location: Heckmondwike

Re: FFP

Postby isrodger » 03 Aug 2019, 13:33

SCOTTISH LEEDS wrote:Interesting quote from MB about Pontus and FFP:-

Do you have enough cover at centre-back?

Jansson left, everyone knows. Jansson was the best player last season.

You know that the club needs to sell players to adapt to FFP and be healthy and the league is equal.


I posted this elsewhere before seeing your post. However for the first time I have an issue with him reference his comments re Jansson. I’m sorry but a £4m sale of your best player, is not down to FFP, particularly when in excess of £20m has been recovered. Be honest Marcelo, you didn’t rate him, you felt it was better he moved on, don’t be disingenuous in your comments, in this case it was your decision to live or die by.
isrodger
Raich Carter's Contract Agent
 
Posts: 3906
Joined: 25 May 2009, 09:57

Re: FFP

Postby rigger » 03 Aug 2019, 18:09

isrodger wrote:
SCOTTISH LEEDS wrote:Be honest Marcelo, you didn’t rate him, you felt it was better he moved on, don’t be disingenuous in your comments, in this case it was your decision to live or die by.


I think he did rate him as a player because he was certainly a first choice when fit,but he clearly wasn't impressed by his insubordination during the Villa game and I would surmise their relationship broke down after that.

The thing I personally didn't like was all the "it's up to the club what happens" nonsense when he clearly knew he was on the way out.
It was another example of his playing up to the crowd, in this case as an innocent victim who would never want to leave the club.
Yeah, right ..

If I'm any judge of character, I would guess Bielsa probably thought the same thing at the time and that may well have been the final nail in Jansson's yellow and blue coffin.
If you thought that post was good, you should check out my interesting and constantly surprising blog: http://paulridgeblog.com/
User avatar
rigger
LUFCTALK Admin
 
Posts: 12961
Joined: 07 Oct 2010, 17:35

Re: FFP

Postby SCOTTISH LEEDS » 06 Aug 2019, 10:14

Luton Town's CEO Garry Sweet take on FFP from his programme notes from Fridays game:-

The new Championship season kicked off on Friday evening, with Luton Town celebrating their return to the second tier after a 13-year absence.

The Hatters shared a thrilling 3-3 draw with Jonathan Woodgate's Middlesbrough side in front of the Sky Sports cameras as Graeme Jones' side showed that they are ready to mix it on the pitch.

But it's not just on the pitch where Town have had to get ready for the increased competition that the Championship brings.

Financial Fair Play has become one of the division's biggest talking points this summer, as the points deduction handed out to Birmingham City last season showing that the EFL is finally showing their teeth over the matter.

Pontus Jansson claimed his exit from Leeds United was due to FFP - whether or not that is true is debatable - and it is clear that the rules have had an effect on summer spending for the Whites, while several of their rivals have resorted to selling their stadiums to sister companies in order to claw their way back within the clearly defined limits.

One team that will not be throwing caution to the wind are Luton, with their CEO Gary Sweet offering up one of the most erudite takes on the talking point in his programme notes ahead of Friday's clash against Boro.

"We enter a world where, according to the Financial Fair Play laws laid down by the authorities, a financial loss a pound less than £35million is considered to be a successful benchmark!," he wrote. "We, on the other hand, remain insistent that it is sheer madness to target our success baseline on anything other than a break-even profit and loss account.

"And due to these financial malfunctions, we enter a world whereby at least three clubs have sold significant assets to themselves in order to disguise their breach of Financial Fair Play regularity. In other words, losing a mere £12m per year isn’t enough to gamble on the dream of the apparent utopian paradise of the treasure chest provided by Premier League membership."

Luton, who were playing non-league football six years ago, have to invest heavily in their Kenilworth Road this summer, as Sweet continues:

"However, as a newcomer entering this new world as a rising star after winning our league below, we have needed to spend over £1m on stadium facilities – to include goal-line technology, new television camera positions, new press areas, new dugouts, not including the numerous commercial and safety enhancements we’ve made – all in order to be compliant to provide armchair viewers a comfortable platform to watch tonight’s game.

"Such financial competitivity in the Championship is leading to clubs, who may not be gifted with complimentary windfalls as a reward for failure, or immensely wealthy (and usually temporary) benefactors who seem to be on a personal ego trip or on a fantasy journey to find that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, experiencing difficulties.

"In this mayhem, of which we are now a member, it is the traditional, loyal supporter that is far too easily forgotten.

"Well, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, whilst we have no choice but to join this mayhem, competing in this way is not who we are and not who we will ever be. We (2020) are not in this game intent on utilising the beautiful game for our own self-gratification or self-publication. Neither are we foolish enough to think that football is a platform where easy profit is made."

Sweet continues with something of a rallying call for the Hatters.

"We, perhaps along with our visitors today, remain as one of the last bastions of Club custodians who are lifelong fans of our Club and who will put our supporters, our community and our town first – an unwavering stance which defines who we are and which has firmly established the culture we will live and die by.

"Therefore, if we want to avoid becoming another Bolton Wanderers [insert the name of any other club of the many in current turmoil], to compete at this level, we need to operate creatively, intelligently, boldly and bonded together, all singing from the same hymn-sheet! We must establish different methods of creating our unique competitive edge, that do not necessarily rely on brute financial muscle. We firmly believe there is a better, less irrational, less egotistical way to climb this pyramid and one we’ve been practising and refining since we returned to the Football League."

He then ends this rally call with a nifty catch phrase.

"Lutopia – The Luton Way – is something we’ve been brewing for some considerable time," he writes. "A method of sustainability and progression which slowly brews the ingredients of our culture (indeed, cultures as a harmonious plural) in the pot with our ambition and principled position whereby we need to feed into our environment more than we take from it."
User avatar
SCOTTISH LEEDS
Howard Wilkinson's military attaché
 
Posts: 4296
Joined: 13 Nov 2013, 18:53
Location: Heckmondwike

Re: FFP

Postby johnh » 11 Aug 2019, 13:53

I start off by admitting that I know absolutely nothing about Leeds United financial position. However, there have been quotes coming out of Leeds United about FFP and talking about financial losses and the risks of points deductions etc., We haven't spent much (compared to some Championship clubs) on transfers in, though we have done fairly well on transfers out. Looking at the results from the games yesterday, I calculated the average crowd attendances for the Championship games. We had over 35k at Elland Road. The next highest was 28k. The average for the other eleven teams was 20k. (The lowest was 10,673 at Hull). There is no way that we should have concerns about FFP let alone be reporting losses. If clubs with significantly less support than ourselves can manage, what is going on?
The ex-Prime Minister has been in our house.
User avatar
johnh
Don Revie's bingo caller
 
Posts: 6376
Joined: 24 Jan 2012, 15:26

Re: FFP

Postby isrodger » 11 Aug 2019, 13:59

In fairness there are 2 figures in terms of complying with FFP. One which literally requires the club to break even and one which permits the owner to contribute £39m over 3 years towards losses. It has become apparent that Radz is no longer prepared to put in an owners contribution, which has us at disadvantage to the likes of Derby.

Out of the Kinnear notes one figure flabbergasted me yesterday ... since Radz has taken over salaries have increased in excess of 150% ! I hope and prey this includes loan fees. Regardless the cost side of the business appears to have been allowed to get out of control ... hence the wholesale cull this summer.
isrodger
Raich Carter's Contract Agent
 
Posts: 3906
Joined: 25 May 2009, 09:57

Re: FFP

Postby Nic » 11 Aug 2019, 17:45

isrodger wrote:In fairness there are 2 figures in terms of complying with FFP. One which literally requires the club to break even and one which permits the owner to contribute £39m over 3 years towards losses. It has become apparent that Radz is no longer prepared to put in an owners contribution, which has us at disadvantage to the likes of Derby.

Out of the Kinnear notes one figure flabbergasted me yesterday ... since Radz has taken over salaries have increased in excess of 150% ! I hope and prey this includes loan fees. Regardless the cost side of the business appears to have been allowed to get out of control ... hence the wholesale cull this summer.
Getting investment like the 39ers last year probably meant Radz wasn't putting in more money. We also don't know if GFH take a share of any money he did put in. Some of the wages will have gone up for improved contracts to keep players, especially last season when we looked like going up.
User avatar
Nic
Jimmy Armfield's cardigan knitter
 
Posts: 1234
Joined: 31 Jan 2013, 15:46

Re: FFP

Postby Davycc » 11 Aug 2019, 18:38

I know I'm naive but I can only really concentrate on the football
This is what makes you champions, you never give in, never ever give in..
User avatar
Davycc
Bielsa's English Teacher
 
Posts: 9477
Joined: 03 Aug 2011, 18:09
Location: Wet West Britain

Re: FFP

Postby EastYorkie » 11 Aug 2019, 19:14

johnh wrote:I start off by admitting that I know absolutely nothing about Leeds United financial position. However, there have been quotes coming out of Leeds United about FFP and talking about financial losses and the risks of points deductions etc., We haven't spent much (compared to some Championship clubs) on transfers in, though we have done fairly well on transfers out. Looking at the results from the games yesterday, I calculated the average crowd attendances for the Championship games. We had over 35k at Elland Road. The next highest was 28k. The average for the other eleven teams was 20k. (The lowest was 10,673 at Hull). There is no way that we should have concerns about FFP let alone be reporting losses. If clubs with significantly less support than ourselves can manage, what is going on?


John, I recommend anyone to have a look at the clubs accounts and compare them over the years. Its an eye opener tbh even if accounting stuff is as dull as ditch water.

From the last set of accounts we have available, average attendances were running at 31,500, this is when Christiansen was here. Just basing it on 23 league games then the average revenue was just £16 per seat. Gate receipts at £11m made up just 28% of the total clubs revenue.

Total salaries of everyone employed by the club was £31m before we even start totting up other costs. I suspect that the players take up 75% of that and means that ticket sales don't even cover the wages of the players.

In other words attendences are not the main issue when looking at how much money the club loses and therefore the risks it runs with FFP.

The main issue that drives FFP concerns for all clubs is the cost of players - buying them, disposing of them and paying their salaries - and then the cost of the coach and his many staff, who don't come cheap either. The club has to squeeze every last penny it can out of its supporter base through all its other revenue streams to get anywhere near breaking even. In fact its still not doing well enough.

Its also fair to say, that the Championship clubs are not really getting a fair deal from the likes of Sky and really need more TV money in order to afford the quality of players they need in order to compete.

The single biggest predictor of how well a club will do over the season is the wage bill of the players. Its quite obvious that the best players will cost the most and are most likely to perform the best. Thus the clubs with the largest wage bill tend to do better, which is where Radz has been taking the club last season and into this. This is in complete contrast to the first year where he was trying to do 'cheap' and bring in a lot of lower cost players.

It appears he has completely changed his strategy on players and coaching staff. The penny must have dropped with him in the summer of 2018 and it appears with the clear out of players this year he has put that first year well and truly behind him, bar a few players that still have to be moved on.

I read something the other day that suggests the loss for last financial year would be around £16m and would have been even higher for this year - in other words right at the limit of FFP as Kinnear has said.

At least half of the other clubs in the Championship will have lower salaries than Leeds but they realistically have no chance of promotion and probably their strategy is just to not get relegated and not get stung by FFP. They will sell players accordingly to acheive this.
EastYorkie
Neil Redfearn's diversity coach
 
Posts: 51
Joined: 05 Nov 2017, 20:55

Re: FFP

Postby Davycc » 11 Aug 2019, 19:20

I know I'm naive but I can only really concentrate on the football
This is what makes you champions, you never give in, never ever give in..
User avatar
Davycc
Bielsa's English Teacher
 
Posts: 9477
Joined: 03 Aug 2011, 18:09
Location: Wet West Britain

PreviousNext

Return to LUFC TALK

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests