Patrick Bamford

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Selby White
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Re: Patrick Bamford

Post by Selby White »

rigger wrote:I've not got anything against non-scoring strikers but if you're going to play with one, they obviously need to cover a lot of ground, take a lot of damage, hold up the ball really well and bring other players into the game.

Giroud and Guivarch have won World Cups for France without scoring in the tournament, while Emile Heskey proved highly adept at all those things for England during an excellent partnership with Michael Owen - if you doubt that statement, check the numbers between them and compare them to the Beardsley-Lineker duo, which played a similar number of matches.

On a few occasions this and last term, we've dropped points after Bamford's been substituted : this could be a coincidence but I think it's more likely that we have less of an outlet up top and less height when defending, so would argue the two factors are linked.
Given that he's likely to play every game till the end of the season if Bielsa's previous 80-odd games in charge are anything to go by, we clearly need more goals from elsewhere in the team or for him to hit a purple patch if we go up.

Trouble is, I don't think he's all that at setting up others.
He's fine receiving the ball under pressure but he generally doesn't assist too often (3 in 29 this season) so I think we need to play someone off him. This could be Pablo, but is more likely to be Augustin or Roberts, as we saw in the second half against Wigan.
I really like Roberts and would love to see us do that because I think given more game-time he'll become a dangerous player.
The likelihood is pretty slim though, unless something happens to Hernandez and Roberts manages to stay fit for a while.

The only hope is that the competition pushes him to be more consistent or the penny drops with Bielsa and Augustin hits the ground running and Bamford is quietly dropped. I'd bring him on with 15 minutes to go to close out a game - that could be where his real value lies in the run-in, but this really does depend on the Frenchman being up to the task.

Here's hoping !
Some good points Rigger but one stat I actually don't like is the assists one as it only counts if a goal is scored.
Not just talking PB (although I appreciate that's who we are looking at) but the use of the Stat at all.

My thoughts are a good pass can be played giving a team mate a good shooting opportunity but he doesn't score so no assist registered through no fault of the providing player. PB created at least two but probably more chances for team mates on Saturday but they don't count.
In the same breath a Pablo or Costa pass to PB in a scoring position their stats are only as good as what he does.

Hope that makes sense.

On another note I was just doing a comparison of this and last season under the Bielsa system of one up front (League Games Only).

Last season our main striker scored 27 goals at an average of 0.58 per game (this total was shared by Roofe-15, Bamford-9 & Roberts-3)
This season so far its 16 goals from 30 games at an average of 0.53 (total shared between Bamford-12, Nketieh-3 & Roberts-1)
No surprise but still lower so moving in the wrong direction, I think a figure of 0.65 (30 goals in season) would be realistic expectation given our possession stats.

So then to other goals from everyone else -

Last season it was 46 goals between easy calculation of one per game.
This season its unbelievably running at exactly the same rate with 30 goals from 30 games.

I've always said that we need to be looking at 2 goals per game to win leagues (not an exact science I know as history proves you can score less if you concede less and still win leagues).
Anyway that means we should be looking for 92 goals in my opinion.
I've already said our strikers should be providing 30 of these so that leaves another 62 goals from elsewhere.
Our current rate of one per game (46 goals) isn't good enough.
We need a strike rate from other players of around 1.35 goals per game between them.

Long explanation but think the numbers back up Riggers point it isn't only the striker that needs to improve its the whole team.
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Re: Patrick Bamford

Post by Deleted User 728 »

On the other hand, if Augustin or Roberts prove to have a higher strike rate than Bamford then it could all turn out to be academic anyway, as we'll win more games with a higher conversion rate from our main striker, all other things being equal.

As for the assists thing : you're talking about "key passes" or "chance creation" and it's all linked to XGs (eXpected Goals) in the current stat vernacular. I agree that sometimes those passes are more vital, more technical and more important (and that's one thing I admire about some other sports in that they DO credit the "pre-assist") but more often than not Bamford's not only wrestling against a burly centre-half, but he also seems to be trying to get the ball out from under his feet a lot of the time, so I seriously doubt his figures are great for this part of the game either. Nothing to back this up, purely observational on my part though ..
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Selby White
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Re: Patrick Bamford

Post by Selby White »

Just had a count up on the BBC match report and of our 19 failed attempts on goal the key pass (assist ?) on Saturday was provided by :-
Hernandez - 5 times
Harrison - 3 times
Bamford - 3 times
Costa - 2 times
Dallas - 1 time
Alioski - 1 time

The other 4 occasions no player is named.
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whitedancer
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Re: Patrick Bamford

Post by whitedancer »

Still in 2nd place , which is unbelievable, lucky this season is full of mediocre sides, but Fulham are starting to roll, and Brentford are looking good, so prob 2 more games before we dissapear into the play off spots, so for the good of the team bamford has to be rested, he's confidence is low , looking for the extra touch, snatching at chances , always been a no2 or 3 striker where ever he's been. And you can see why .bielsa got us playing better football improved mediocre players. But you can also see why he's a championship manager too. It frustrates me so much , watching same mistakes week in, week out. We had a fox in the box in nketiah, but was barely used until arsenal wanted him back. We need to freshen up the side , because it's only going 1 way at the moment. Yet paddy power have us at 1/8 to get promoted. And bookies are not usually that far out :lol:
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Re: Patrick Bamford

Post by Leicester White »

Perhaps more importantly, you can get about 3 x your money + stake on Leeds not getting promotion on the Betfair Exchange!
isrodger
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Re: Patrick Bamford

Post by isrodger »

Not particularly about Bamford but where goals come from in general. One thing we have stopped doing POST, last Xmas really, is getting runners in behind the opposition back line. This is most noticeable with Klich, who the millwall game apart, has flattered to deceive on occasions. If Bamford is to operate / come a bit deeper, it’s incumbent on the midfield 4 run beyond. We rarely see those arriving late bowyer/lampard type runs which were a big feature in the early bielsa days.
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Re: Patrick Bamford

Post by Leonickroberts »

isrodger wrote:Not particularly about Bamford but where goals come from in general. One thing we have stopped doing POST, last Xmas really, is getting runners in behind the opposition back line. This is most noticeable with Klich, who the millwall game apart, has flattered to deceive on occasions. If Bamford is to operate / come a bit deeper, it’s incumbent on the midfield 4 run beyond. We rarely see those arriving late bowyer/lampard type runs which were a big feature in the early bielsa days.
Agreed ISR, the lack of driving runs through the middle and late runs into the box means our players rarely have the space to hit long shots. Part of the problem is that the players we have, Klich aside, aren't that sort of player. Pablo likes to float around outside the box trying to unlock things, Phillips sits deep, the wide players cover the entirety of the pitch, but stick to the touchline and occasionally drift in from wide. Not sure what the solution is though - were Pablo or Phillips to drive through/run beyond there would be holes in behind. This tactic also only really works when there are spaces to run into, which is rarely the case when teams park the bus, and the reason we end up passing it pointlessly around the edge of the box until somebody gets impatient and puts it into row Z.
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Re: Patrick Bamford

Post by Davycc »

Just a thought. PB clearly came off yesterday looking dejected and as a striker not scoring goals "should" make you feel like this. However MB obviously sees/wants him to keep doing what he's doing, tiring defenders and defending from the front (also hopefully scoring the odd goal too)

Now let's do a hypothetical flip, if we had a player who from the start was never classed as a striker, lets say a left back and we discovered he tortured defences and ran his socks off tiring defences and allowing others to score then he'd be hailed as being important to the team. Remove the moniker "striker" and that's what PB is.

But, even if MB tells him what he's doing is exactly what he wants him to do, being a "striker" he's going to want to be associated with scoring.


Just rambling.
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Re: Patrick Bamford

Post by Deleted User 3289 »

Its a team effort isn't it? I just wouldn't have Bamford in my team. :angel: That's no offense to Bamford i just don't think he's prolific enough. I wouldn't argue with the Master about it tho.
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Re: Patrick Bamford

Post by Another Northern Soul »

Viduka Hits The Mark wrote:Its a team effort isn't it? I just wouldn't have Bamford in my team. :angel: That's no offense to Bamford i just don't think he's prolific enough. I wouldn't argue with the Master about it tho.
Damn right, and it's a bloomin' good team too at the moment :thumbup:
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