10 games in - The big picture

[Nic]

@rigger - no costa?

[SiMamu]

I agree with the general sentiments echoed by ShadwellWhite and rigger. I don't like how our wingers cling to the touchline, particularly as we play with wing backs. I'd like to see them play closer to Bamford and for the three behind the striker (the two wingers and the most offensive midfielder) to show more individual quality in the final third. Right now we are entirely reliant on Bielsa's movements, but it's easier to stop those, than to stop individual quality. That's why we've struggled since the loss of Saiz. We've definitely got players who are capable of more - namely Roberts and Costa. They just need to show a bit more ingenuity. I'd like to see more quick moving interplay through the middle, getting ahead of Bamford up top, rather than playing out wide and looking for the perfect cut back in a tightly packed box.

I think that we're close to what we need to be. Our press is good and we don't concede a lot of chances. We're confident and calm on the ball. We just need to change how we play in the final third. So often we'll move it quickly from the defence to just over the halfway line, only to then move it out wide and it all becomes far slower and the space closes up. When a team is resetting themselves, we need to go right for the centre.

[Nic]

It seems to me that we don't actually cross the ball that much, certainly not with the wide forwards - they always cut inside looking for cute balls into the box for on-rushing midfielders or, rarely, Bamford if he's free and not being tied down by a couple of defenders.
The only people really crossing are the wing-backs and we don't really get enough numbers into the box to get on the end of them close enough to goal for headers to be viable scoring options other than at set-pieces.

I agree with the general sentiments echoed by ShadwellWhite and rigger. I don't like how our wingers cling to the touchline, particularly as we play with wing backs. I'd like to see them play closer to Bamford and for the three behind the striker (the two wingers and the most offensive midfielder) to show more individual quality in the final third. Right now we are entirely reliant on Bielsa's movements, but it's easier to stop those, than to stop individual quality. That's why we've struggled since the loss of Saiz. We've definitely got players who are capable of more - namely Roberts and Costa. They just need to show a bit more ingenuity. I'd like to see more quick moving interplay through the middle, getting ahead of Bamford up top, rather than playing out wide and looking for the perfect cut back in a tightly packed box.

I think that we're close to what we need to be. Our press is good and we don't concede a lot of chances. We're confident and calm on the ball. We just need to change how we play in the final third. So often we'll move it quickly from the defence to just over the halfway line, only to then move it out wide and it all becomes far slower and the space closes up. When a team is resetting themselves, we need to go right for the centre.

Surely Rigger is stating we should go out wide rather than through the centre, but Si says we go out wide and should go down the centre

To me it's not whether we go out wide or down the middle but the amount of time we take to actually do the attempt to score. When we hold onto possession and move the ball inside to attack the opposition get time to get numbers back and we are shooting through a crowd if its a shot from distance or try to get the ball closer and will get muscled off the ball or the shot blocked. On the times we attack out wide there isn't a clear target for the cross or our attack are unable to connect well enough for it.

Is it a case of we don't have the quality to achieve what's expected - last season Man City often did the same but managed to often score through the crowd of players, and should our tactics be tweaked to match what we have. Or maybe its more communication, getting attacking players up earlier when we go with the ball we can attack before the 18 yard box gets packed.

[EastYorkie]

If you look at our goal against Millwall it is simple and quick, which is i think what we are all getting at.

We are mostly too slow at passing from the back, through midfield, out to the wings, back to the middle, often then back to the centre backs - stops the opposition getting possession and hence creating opportunities - great if you are defending a lead or looking for 0-0.

A couple of passes at the back, long ball from Ayling completely bypassing midfield, Bamford controls at the edge of the penalty area, lays it off to Klich. Yes we got a little bit of luck, then Klich plays it into the path of Harrison who is running onto the ball, takes one touch and hammers in a ball into the danger zone and up pops Alioski to tap the ball in.

It wasn't what I would call Bielsaball, it was pretty much bog standard Championship football but the key to it is speed, simplicity, being able to make accurate passes and enough skill to make the ball stick to your feet, which Bamford and Klich did. It was all over in a few seconds.

I think what I'm saying is that much of what we do is predictable and teams set up accordingly but we need to mix it up a bit more and stop faffing about for 70% of the match. Bamford can be a target man but usually isn't asked to play like one. He's often drifting out wide just to get involved in the game as otherwise the balls just going sideways and backwards and he never gets to see a pass. He's then not where we need him to be - around the penalty spot area.

Possession football and Bielsaball is great when its working but its often over complicating things. Most goals seem to come from speed, simplicity and just a few passes and we need to have some moves based on that approach in order to mix things up a bit. We can save the possession football for when we are a goal up and the opposition need to come out and attack, then you can get them running, tire themselves and open up the space.

We are perhaps guilty of trying to play the perfect game of football, in fact the team including Bielsa is OCD about it, when really we should concentrate just on getting the job done and then worry about the finer touches.

I think we are really near to having the right combination of tactics and players, that could do really well and walk the league, however as it stands we are making it hard work for ourselves and we will fall short again if we keep on as we are.

[Deleted User 728]

Re Costa : I listed Eddie, Roberts and him as being capable of playing as inside-forwards in a three and meant that they'd play alongside Bamford as a trio, hence one of them has to miss out. Judging by Roberts' end of last season I would play him ahead of Costa right now. He needs game-time too, as much as anything else.

Re "going out wide" : no, I wasn't implying that because Bielsa won't do that. Look at Harrison - he often gets into a crossing position but rarely does. The only people pinging the balls in from time to time have been Dallas and Douglas/Alioski and when they do they never come to anything. It's only freekicks and corners where we have any joy from crossing to the six-yard box.


I think we ARE too predictable like some have suggested and would love it if, rather than trying to walk it over the line, we just started shooting on sight. That old FA adage about minimising risk in your own third, mixing it in the middle of the park and maximising it in the attacking third holds true no matter what system or level of football you're talking about.
Why can't we just have a shot whenever anyone has a clear sight of goal ??
You don't score unless you shoot and it would surprise the opposition if someone just put their foot through the bloody thing when they're twenty yards out. It would make the keeper nervous, the defenders too and just keep them on their toes rather than seeing them retreat and defend en masse.

Have it !

[johnh]

I am sure its not the case, but it seems our players are under strict orders not to shoot unless they are certain of scoring. We do seem to score a lot of tap-ins.

[guitarmark]

The way I see It is we need to play Eddie Nketiah as part of a front three, interchanging with both Bamford and Harrison/Alioski/Dallas or Costa with Hernandez playing in the number 10 role which will give us some flair in the middle. We don't need players out on the wing all the time when we are playing a wing back system. Foreshaw and Phillips can do the nasty work in the middle. My team if all fit would be

............Dallas...Nketiah...Bamford...........
...................Hernandez.......................
...............Foreshaw...Phillips................
....Alioski......White..Cooper.....Ayling.....
......................Casilla............................

Subs
Shackleton
Costa
Harrison
Beradi
Roberts (if he loses the hair buns)

10 games in I think we have the players but id like to see some system changes up front

I agree with a similar format - As we play now with 2 genuine wide players that means Bamford is often isolated in the 'goal scoring' zone

Look at Chelsea when they had Hazard and a 3 man attack + Man City now + Barcelona - The front 3 are less regimented about where they play - They can duck 'n' dive around a formation, which causes problems for the defence, as they don't know who is coming in from where and when - We are to regimented about it - Certainly at E Road the opposition can defend with their backs to goal and look at us approaching them - Far easier to organise a defence this way - We need to offer more and I feel this format would help

The above format allows Forshaw + Phillips to do the hard graft and the top 4 provide flair and hopefully havoc and intermingle as required - All 4 should be strong goal providers, either with shots outside the box, or within the box

I actually think this system would suit Costa far more as well - As shown above I think Bamford + Eddie would have to switch on a regular basis during the game, as not sure either are ideal as a 'wide forward' - Yet we've seen Bamford this year drop deep and hold up the ball as required

[Shadwell White]

The way I see It is we need to play Eddie Nketiah as part of a front three, interchanging with both Bamford and Harrison/Alioski/Dallas or Costa with Hernandez playing in the number 10 role which will give us some flair in the middle. We don't need players out on the wing all the time when we are playing a wing back system. Foreshaw and Phillips can do the nasty work in the middle. My team if all fit would be

............Dallas...Nketiah...Bamford...........
...................Hernandez.......................
...............Foreshaw...Phillips................
....Alioski......White..Cooper.....Ayling.....
......................Casilla............................

Subs
Shackleton
Costa
Harrison
Beradi
Roberts (if he loses the hair buns)

10 games in I think we have the players but id like to see some system changes up front

I agree with a similar format - As we play now with 2 genuine wide players that means Bamford is often isolated in the 'goal scoring' zone

Look at Chelsea when they had Hazard and a 3 man attack + Man City now + Barcelona - The front 3 are less regimented about where they play - They can duck 'n' dive around a formation, which causes problems for the defence, as they don't know who is coming in from where and when - We are to regimented about it - Certainly at E Road the opposition can defend with their backs to goal and look at us approaching them - Far easier to organise a defence this way - We need to offer more and I feel this format would help

The above format allows Forshaw + Phillips to do the hard graft and the top 4 provide flair and hopefully havoc and intermingle as required - All 4 should be strong goal providers, either with shots outside the box, or within the box

I actually think this system would suit Costa far more as well - As shown above I think Bamford + Eddie would have to switch on a regular basis during the game, as not sure either are ideal as a 'wide forward' - Yet we've seen Bamford this year drop deep and hold up the ball as required

This is what I mean, Bamford could drag his markers out wide at times creating space for both other forwards to utilise, it would also create space for Hernandez too. Eddie is hard to mark and would find space in the areas that count and you can score from. I've read articles in the past from Bamfords former coaches that say he works much better in a front two or three in our case. I agree that this system would help Costa too. I really don't think there are many teams in the league who could cope with this formation.