Bielsa - now you know what it's like first hand ..

[Deleted User 728]

Clarkie, IRL I would walk away and probably not bother with any of it anymore. I can't be arsed with the hassle of it all and was actually at that stage till I met Jeanna a couple of years ago. As for the club, I can't walk away from it obviously, but I can switch it off or - in this case - sleep through matches from time to time. I think I actually won this round judging by everyone's reaction of the game itself.

PC71 : that's stuff we've all be advocating for months. But he won't rotate, won't drop anyone till they're injured and certainly won't change the goalie.
I simply don't believe he would ever do any of those things because his purity of vision includes blind loyalty to the players he deems the best in their positions at his disposal. It's why he's never really succeeded anywhere other than Chile, where he had limited time with the squad - ie qualifiers and tournament - and a much smaller pool from which to pick which actually suits his quirky methodology. If you were a Chilean player and didn't buy into his methods, you'd never play for your country again so long as Bielsa was head coach.

Davy : you're a slut

[Selby White]

Excellent thread Rigger, been out all morning so just been catching up and reading all the posts and seems like some decent thoughtful posts whether you agree or not.
Think Sniffers reply is best

Personally I'm a believer that we have a fantastic coach although I can understand peoples thirst for glory when they see some of the top premier teams and look back on what we once had.
However I have a coaching background and one of the things I learnt is a coaches biggest achievement is not always winning things but getting the best out of who he teaches. For the most part I believe our current squad to the man is individually better under MB's guidance than they would be elsewhere.

The trouble with football especially such as the Premier league its basically one of the biggest spenders that wins, think the highest summer spenders have won the Prem in 90% of seasons since we won the last real title. People say the likes of Mourinho are great managers which history says they are but its a lot easier when you only manage the big clubs with the highest spending power. Not saying they are not good coaches but to me its a very big advantage once you get on that gravy train.

As for the stubborn theory you should ask yourself this :-
Do you want a manager that picks what he thinks can do a good job or one that gives way to media/fans pressure ?
Lets be honest if any of us picked the next team the rest of us would have numerous different theorys. Its the nature of us to all have an opinion, we are passionate.
I do believe he does pick his team based on trust and loyalty, that's something else I believe in. You can't sell that theory then chop and change at every hurdle.

So to sum it up yes win or lose I'm sticking with him as he is as good as it gets until the day we have a sugar daddy, then it won't matter we will win because we will have bought all the best players.

[Deleted User 728]

As for the stubborn theory you've should ask yourself this :-
Do you want a manager that picks what he thinks can do a good job or one that gives way to media/fans pressure ?
Lets be honest if any of us picked the next team the rest of us would have numerous different theorys. Its the nature of us to all have an opinion, we are passionate.
I do believe he does pick his team based on trust and loyalty, that's something else I believe in. You can't sell that theory then chop and change at every hurdle.

This is where he falls down for me, though.
I've banged on about Klopp, Pep and Poch all taking his system but refining it by using a squad and also allowing a (small) degree of flexibility from the pressing tactics. It's like Elvis and the fellas at Sun Studios hearing all that old folk blues stuff but tweaking it, speeding it up a bit here, rocking out a bit there - it's more or less the same song, but played at a different speed and with a bit more sex appeal.

To give you a business analogy : Bielsa is Woolworths, Pep is WHSmiths and Klopp is Boots.
They all offered a high street convenience equivalent to the department store whereby the likes of John Lewis and Debenhams tend to be destination outlets that you plan on visiting while the other three are handy and you'd probably nip into any of them as you pass them on any given day, depending on where you are.
Bielsa's business was one of the original retail chains with branches all over the world, but in many markets he's been forced to shut down having long since gone bankrupt, with the people moving on to other, funkier shops.
Smiths and Boots are different : one is hanging in there, not quite what they were but still highly visible and with a fair share of the market, while the other has dramatically turned around what was a sinking ship and made themselves into a thriving brand. They did this by introducing a loyalty card and diversification into new markets like glasses and contacts while quietly dropping others, like music, video and film developing. Their meal deal is a staple for millions across the UK as a lunchtime solution. They're incredibly popular again now, having been huge in the 70s and 80s before what could have been a terminal decline in the 90s until a new management team with vision and dynamism took over and laid the foundations for future success.

[NIK MOT]

Rigger, every word you've written in your post has it high merit and it is 100% correct. Nothing to add, hoping that Bielsa is maybe reading these comments and he will try to digest some of them and place them into different approach towards the future games! Only if...…………………………..

[Selby White]

As for the stubborn theory you've should ask yourself this :-
Do you want a manager that picks what he thinks can do a good job or one that gives way to media/fans pressure ?
Lets be honest if any of us picked the next team the rest of us would have numerous different theorys. Its the nature of us to all have an opinion, we are passionate.
I do believe he does pick his team based on trust and loyalty, that's something else I believe in. You can't sell that theory then chop and change at every hurdle.

This is where he falls down for me, though.
I've banged on about Klopp, Pep and Poch all taking his system but refining it by using a squad and also allowing a (small) degree of flexibility from the pressing tactics. It's like Elvis and the fellas at Sun Studios hearing all that old folk blues stuff but tweaking it, speeding it up a bit here, rocking out a bit there - it's more or less the same song, but played at a different speed and with a bit more sex appeal.

To play devils advocate -

That all assumes that those coming in as part of the rotation will actually improve matters.
The 2nd squad at Liverpool & City would make the top six so to rotate you need almost equal quality.
Take your point though there is some positions that could arguably be shared.

Lets take the last two defeats when we've been without arguably our key player through suspension which resulted in us moving other players into different positions.
What would we all been saying if MB had dropped Phillips because the lad needed a rest instead of been a suspension ?

Not totally supporting the team that was picked elsewhere I've said I would have rather played McCalmont in the DM position (like for like not as good yet) than move players from their normal spots. Would the results been worse, doubt it.

One more thing Woolworths was my favourite shop

[Selby White]

Rigger, every word you've written in your post has it high merit and it is 100% correct. Nothing to add, hoping that Bielsa is maybe reading these comments and he will try to digest some of them and place them into different approach towards the future games! Only if...…………………………..

Just noticed your first post.

Welcome to the forum

Can I suggest you introduce yourself in the New Members forum, always a good idea for newcomers

[whitedancer]

I don't post to much , but not jumping on the bandwagon, has most posters on here feel Bielsa is some sort of God, I basically can't listen to hes gargoyle , which I pointed out last season and he's the same again this, although I do respect,he's work ethics and he's improvement in the youngsters,although I'm puzzled while they don't get a chance. I know worry for Hernandez , after showing disrespect at the substitution , we never saw Pontus again after villa debacle, when kodja was play acting over a fowl. And Pontus showed disrepect.and then kodja scored the following and strummed he's leg like a guitar , to me that was aimed at the Leeds supporters. Anyway bielsa to me is no more then a Dario gradi the ex Crewe boss, who was great at developing youngsters and bringing them on , only to have he's star players picked off by the top managers, Bielsa must also must be a owners dream , he never seems to bring new signings in , unless absolutely desperate, ie having fit 1 so called striker. And the keeper don't let me go there,

[Davycc]

I don't post to much , but not jumping on the bandwagon, has most posters on here feel Bielsa is some sort of God, I basically can't listen to hes gargoyle , which I pointed out last season and he's the same again this, although I do respect,he's work ethics and he's improvement in the youngsters,although I'm puzzled while they don't get a chance. I know worry for Hernandez , after showing disrespect at the substitution , we never saw Pontus again after villa debacle, when kodja was play acting over a fowl. And Pontus showed disrepect.and then kodja scored the following and strummed he's leg like a guitar , to me that was aimed at the Leeds supporters. Anyway bielsa to me is no more then a Dario gradi the ex Crewe boss, who was great at developing youngsters and bringing them on , only to have he's star players picked off by the top managers, Bielsa must also must be a owners dream , he never seems to bring new signings in , unless absolutely desperate, ie having fit 1 so called striker. And the keeper don't let me go there,

Certainly can't say you're jumping on the Blelsa band wagon. Maybe jumping on the man himself though. Each to their own opinion.

[Sniffer]

I don't post to much , but not jumping on the bandwagon, has most posters on here feel Bielsa is some sort of God, I basically can't listen to hes gargoyle , which I pointed out last season and he's the same again this, although I do respect,he's work ethics and he's improvement in the youngsters,although I'm puzzled while they don't get a chance. I know worry for Hernandez , after showing disrespect at the substitution , we never saw Pontus again after villa debacle, when kodja was play acting over a fowl. And Pontus showed disrepect.and then kodja scored the following and strummed he's leg like a guitar , to me that was aimed at the Leeds supporters. Anyway bielsa to me is no more then a Dario gradi the ex Crewe boss, who was great at developing youngsters and bringing them on , only to have he's star players picked off by the top managers, Bielsa must also must be a owners dream , he never seems to bring new signings in , unless absolutely desperate, ie having fit 1 so called striker. And the keeper don't let me go there,

Certainly can't say you're jumping on the Blelsa band wagon. Maybe jumping on the man himself though. Each to their own opinion.

Thanks for clearing that up, Davy. I had trouble reading it, to be honest. I'm dyslexic and it was giving me a headache. And I mean no offence by that, whitedancer.

[Deleted User 728]

SW : I take the point about the strength of the squad but feel you may be slightly blinded by the fact that ours is currently so weak.
In the first weeks of the season it was way, way stronger. If we have no injuries or suspensions our squad is pretty tasty.

We all know the starting XI :
Kiko; Ayling, White, Cooper, Douglas; Phillips; Costa, Klich, Hernandez, Harrison; Bamford.
I think most would agree that's the starting team for Bielsa with Dallas in the Madeley role of slotting in for anyone who may be out, or possibly even as first choice left back.
On the bench at the start of the season we would then have : Meslier, Berardi, Alioski, Dallas, Foreshaw, Shackleton, Roberts. Add Nketiah too, if you like, to make the number of first team options 8 in total, the rest being inexperienced U23s like Stevens, Davis and Gotts.

That bench looks pretty stellar to me, with four full internationals and two at U21 plus Shack, who I regard as the best young player at the club.

We could - and I have been saying this in this very forum for several years now - rotate one or two spots every week and not lose much in quality. This would lessen the chance of injuries, increase experience across the squad, engender greater team spirit and spread the responsibility throughout the players rather than relying on the same XI, flogging them to death before having to make a change.
It's just basic resource management and only someone with a super-narrow vision would NOT do that.
I'm pretty sure Bielsa is a bona fide genius in terms of intelligence - check out the rest of his family for the quality of their genes - but I'm also fairly sure he's on the spectrum as someone with high-functioning Asperger's.

He IS amazing and I do desperately love the bloke, but I just wish he'd take his head out of his proverbial and wake up and smell the coffee.
If he doesn't change either Bamford or Kiko for the next match - ideally BOTH - then I am out. I will have had enough because he doesn't learn from his own mistakes, either from across his career or directly from his last two seasons at Leeds United bloody football club.