2020-21 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

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Re: 2020-21 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Postby Seathrun66 » 15 Oct 2020, 13:52

corkleedsmot wrote:
Seathrun66 wrote:
corkleedsmot wrote:
Seathrun66 wrote:
corkleedsmot wrote:If it said only when we are promoted then i knew we would def lose any case going forward but the date makes it quite clear. Moral high ground in my view was lost when they tried to change the contract after the fact. An effort to make sure they caught Leeds out for a player they knew we wouldn't want. Moral high ground literally wont matter here anywhere it is quite clear. Leeds on June 30th were not promoted so not liable. It was RBL decision to not claim their player who is registered to them. Neither side is covered in glory here anyway. All situations played out to current contracts over covid. Players had to negotiate new deals etc. If they didn't there would now be thousands of cases and there hasn't been. It is my View that Messi would have lost too. The idea he didnt want to take Barca to court is nonsense.... he has already taken Barca to court. He knew he would lose.


What exactly have RBL done wrong? Nothing I can see. If this was another English club we'd have paid up already and tried to cut our losses by selling Augustin on at a reduced price.

When did Messi take Barcelona to court? No record I can find. He's aware that even with a legal victory it would spoil his peerless legacy with the club.

And it's not moral high ground in this instance, it's clear legal interpretation for which we are in the wrong. And very clearly so.


Right and wrong do not come into it. It is a contract. The criteria were not met so we are not liable.

It has nothing to do with English or German. Talk to any lawyer besides RBL's and they will tell you the exact same thing.

It is the EXACT equivalent of RBL asking Leeds for 18 million if we were promoted the year after. They would be told to get stuffed then and rightly so.

The termination date is all that will matter which in this case was 30th of June.

Everybody else followed these rules and knew they had to renegotiate deals if they wanted. Leeds didn't want to. FIFA gave no directive which basically means they are saying contract dates too. (if they did otherwise the football world would have melted)

Ryan Fraser rejected a contract and refused to play with 3 months left. Berardi went the other way(here is where spirit of the game matters from a Leeds perspective). You need all parties to agree a contract. in this case you only had one.

I think you are not reading in between the lines. RBL are just gambling here. They want Augustin off their books either way as he is on 4.5 mill a year there. They should have taken their player back and sold him as you said but they dumped him to get out of his wages because Nantes would not be able to afford the deal for Augustin with a transfer fee and the player wouldn't leave if his deal wasn't solid leaving them liable for 18 mill over 4 years.

They will be cold and calculated about this and they are already prepared to lose. The morality nonsense to the press is just for show and believing multinational drinks corporations have souls is well... suboptimal thinking over time. That is not to say they won't be very angry. Bayern already lied to the press this week about Cuisance when suddenly sending him to France giving them 100% better terms. These are no angels and they are 100% trying to squeeze money out of English clubs who are rolling in TV money.

Leeds paid the staff with no redundancies, took care of Berardi to the best of my knowledge, kept Bielsa sweet and got us promoted after 16 years and then spent big on players.

Spirit of the game


Right and wrong is significant but over-ridden by strict legal criteria. You've misunderstood some stuff.

1. You are taking the contract literally. If all contracts were set in stone there'd be no need for contract lawyers or litigation. Plenty of them and they make a lot of cash on issues like this. The pertinent matter will be promotion, rather than the date, and the spirit of the contract is what the court will examine.

2. The case will not be held under the jurisdiction of England and Wales but according to Swiss law due to the presence of FIFA headquarters there. Swiss (and German) law will use a supplementary interpretation of an agreement. They will base it on an extension of the season being included in the contract were the teams aware of it at the time of the contract. Force majeure will not apply in this case. Nor would it under English or Welsh law. Leeds have unilaterally broken the contract.

3. You may feel that Leeds shouldn't pay out. But pay out we will. We made an error, signed a player who didn't perform and that's not the fault of RBL.

You said RBL had done things wrong. What did you mean? I've no idea whether they're a decent or a dodgy club but I see nothing wrong in the way they've behaved.

You said that Augustin was on £4.5m but Football Insider have his wages at £35k per week which is £1.82m. What's the source for £4.5m?

You said Messi had already taken Barcelona to court. When?


1. what I am taking literally is the contract termination date. You can interpret words differently in a contract. numbers and dates are different.

2. The case will take place in Switzerland but not because FIFA HQ is there. It is because the Court of sports arbitration is there (I have actually been there)

3. If the date wasn't on the contract Leeds would have to pay and I am 100% certain JKA would be a Leeds player today. I'm 95% we win the case unless FIFA somehow do us REALLY dirty. I can't see why they would step in on RBL's behalf as by doing nothing already when the season suspended and contracts elapsed they made their position clear. They said contracts follow dates by doing nothing. Seasons are for football not contracts. The result of them doing otherwise would have been catastrophic for them and football had they intervened. Imagine them saying dates mean nothing on football contracts :) I am not sure why they would change course on that now. I still think Leeds would win any appeal. You cannot force a club to pay 18 mill for the player they do not want based on an expired contract.

RBL dumped the player so they were not liable for wages or contract. They knew they were liable when they tried to negotiate the contract again. If they were 100% certain he was a Leeds player why even bother? (It was because of the termination date) Phil Hay and the Athletic and numerous other places reported on his 90k wages. JKA may end up having a case against them :)

Leeds did not manufacture the situation (pandemic) If we didn't manufacture the situation all we did was follow the contract. Nothing malicious has taken place on Leeds part. We had to pay an extra 2-3 million on the Harrison deal for eg. and we did that. So Leeds are to get caught on both ends? not going to happen.
Player performance makes absolutely no difference to the contract. It would have been RBL's choice to renegotiate post suspension if he banged in 25 goals. We can only deal with what actually happened.

RBL are the most hated club in Germany by far and for good reason. I may be appearing to mock spirit of the game type arguments but only with them. They represent the exact opposite of this. For them to pull this spirit of the game stuff is a cynical ploy hence my very cynical response. They have openly given the middle finger to German football fans for a decade. Just read about their history in German football. No bloody way should Leeds fans feel obliged to feel sorry for such a soulless 'club'. They have literally used any legal means to get out of everything remotely resembling spirit of the game and German football rules/culture for their entire existence. It is no coincidence they are the only club trying to pull this nonsense. They are happily trying to destroy German football culture for a buck.

With the Messi court case thing it was a good few years back and SEO is causing it to be obscured because the recent drama was such a big story. Graham Hunter alluded to it again in the last few days though. "Messi has been very litigious and has already been in court with Barca. so the idea that he just didn't want to take Barca to court falls flat " I will post it if I come across that interview again I think it was image rights case and some other stuff. Either way they have def been in court before.


You're re-stating stuff I've already answered. I'll repeat the points below for the last time as I'm sure people here are bored of this.

1. Dates on contracts are not set in stone when there are exceptional circumstances. Promotion is the defining issue here. You're applying a simplistic analysis of the workings of the legal process. Ask any contract or litigation lawyer. We were promoted, we will be paying out.

2. RBL have appealed to both FIFA and the CAS. Both have Swiss HQs and use Swiss law.The latter also has courts in Sydney, New York and at Olympic venues using the relevant local system. CAS is independent, and FIFA will have no say on the verdict if it's held there, unless you're implying that CAS are corrupt.

3. The chances of a court case are slight. Leeds will pay out as the consequences of losing the case then having to pay two sets of legal fees are unwelcome.

4. Leeds are paying extra for Harrison by deferring to next year. At Leeds' request, not Man City's who'd probably have preferred £8m in their bank account now.

5. RBL disliked for sponsorship and success. See also Man Utd, Blackburn, Man City at different times.

6. Lionel Messi never took Barcelona to court. You made it up. Stuff like that is in the public eye and doesn't go away.

I take it you still believe that Leeds will not be paying out. There's nothing more to add and I'll eat humble pie here if RBL back down or FIFA or CAS find in our favour.
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Re: 2020-21 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Postby rigger » 15 Oct 2020, 13:57

Blimey. Can we please be a bit more concise with the quotes or it'll be one post per page at this rate. Try just quoting the line you're responding to.
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Re: 2020-21 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Postby Seathrun66 » 15 Oct 2020, 13:59

rigger wrote:Blimey. Can we please be a bit more concise with the quotes or it'll be one post per page at this rate. Try just quoting the line you're responding to.


Fair enough. Apologies. And I'm hoping that aspect of the thread is done. Nothing new to add to it.
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Re: 2020-21 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Postby Barlow Boy » 15 Oct 2020, 14:26

Robbie Gotts set to go on loan to Lincoln.
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Re: 2020-21 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Postby NottinghamWhite » 15 Oct 2020, 14:34

Buendía of Norwich is the latest rumour.
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Re: 2020-21 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Postby DominanceUK » 15 Oct 2020, 14:44

Barlow Boy wrote:Robbie Gotts set to go on loan to Lincoln.


I'm really happy with this BB, I think he has a big future ahead of him, going out on loan to a League 1 side should hopefully benefit him.
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Re: 2020-21 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Postby Leonickroberts » 15 Oct 2020, 14:53

NottinghamWhite wrote:Buendía of Norwich is the latest rumour.


Reading have also rejected a £5m bid for Michael Olise, but haven't said who from (us, Arsenal and Wolves have all been interested at points over the last few months). Would be a great signing for me.
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Re: 2020-21 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Postby PhoenixUnited » 15 Oct 2020, 15:19

rigger wrote:Blimey. Can we please be a bit more concise with the quotes or it'll be one post per page at this rate. Try just quoting the line you're responding to.

:D Not just me going bit boss eyed! :lolno: :D
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Re: 2020-21 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Postby Barlow Boy » 15 Oct 2020, 15:45

Barry Douglas set to depart for Blackburn.
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Re: 2020-21 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Postby Barlow Boy » 15 Oct 2020, 15:48

DominanceUK wrote:
Barlow Boy wrote:Robbie Gotts set to go on loan to Lincoln.


I'm really happy with this BB, I think he has a big future ahead of him, going out on loan to a League 1 side should hopefully benefit him.

I’ve not seen enough of the U23’s to make any judgement really, we are obviously keen to keep hold of him so, as you say Dom, this move will probably benefit him.
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