What if? Bayern Munich 0: Leeds United 2

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What if? Bayern Munich 0: Leeds United 2

Postby Westminster » 28 Sep 2020, 17:49

Leeds, as we know, lost the 1975 European Cup final to Bayern Munich under controversial circumstances - a result which, as a schoolboy, taught me that life really is not fair. Either way, the match is often seen as the end for that great Leeds team and Don Revie's side was dismantled thereafter.

But I've always wondered what would have happened if Leeds had won that night though - had we been awarded the penalty when Beckenbauer brought Clarke down and if Lorimer's thunderbolt wasn't disallowed. To me, there are two possible scenarios:

1) Leeds return in triumph but really the victory is just a happy ending and Leeds still go into long-term decline. Let's face it, Revie's team was already starting to split up anyway. Terry Cooper had gone earlier that year and Mick Jones would never play again. The '75 final was Giles last game, win or lose; Bremner was on his last legs and would leave the following year, as would Hunter.

Their replacements - the likes of Frank Gray, Jordan and Yorath - were good players but not in the same class as Revie's 'originals'. So, all in all, winning the European Cup wouldn't have made much difference. We were on the downhill slide whatever happened that fateful night in Paris.

2) Leeds return in triumph. The board let Jimmy Armfield loose with the cheque book and he makes two or three high-quality signings that summer. The victory inspires the rest of the team to play above themselves and Leeds successfully defend the trophy in 76.

More top signings are made and Leeds continue to slug it out with Liverpool at the top of English - and European - football for the rest of the '70s nd into the 1980s and beyond.

Or is there another scenario, what do you think?
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Re: What if? Bayern Munich 0: Leeds United 2

Postby Selby White » 28 Sep 2020, 18:01

Think the European ban we received had an influence on players coming in but we still had a few decent ones on the books in that era (Cherry, Curry, McKenzie, etc).

Other than the bent refereeing I think we missed McQueen in the final as he was banned after been sent off in the Semi. It meant we lost Madeley from midfield as he had to play Centre Half, Yorath always did his best but not in the same league as PM, McQueen despite running away later to scum was a world class Centre Half.
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Re: What if? Bayern Munich 0: Leeds United 2

Postby Westminster » 28 Sep 2020, 18:05

I agree about McQueen. I think we'd have won that night had he played.

It would still have left us facing the same long-term scenario though had we lifted the trophy that night - but, oh, how I wish we had.
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Re: What if? Bayern Munich 0: Leeds United 2

Postby Clarke One Nil » 29 Sep 2020, 00:47

I think we would have done better, and attracted better new players, because of the intangible benefits of being European champions. We would have been only the second English side to win it.

But for early-teen me, what was more important was the match itself. It was meant to be the day that made up for Celtic, Chelsea, West Brom, Colchester, Sunderland, and AC Milan.

I asked Allan Clarke about that at a Leeds Legends event, and he said that Revie had instilled a resilience in that side that enabled them to come back from all of those disappointments and injustices.

The Bayern Munich game should have been the reward for that resilience.
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Re: What if? Bayern Munich 0: Leeds United 2

Postby NottinghamWhite » 29 Sep 2020, 06:57

I had just started a new job & was told in no uncertain terms that I couldn’t have time off for the final. I was devastated & watched the game in a local pub with friends. I’ve met many older Bayern fans who honestly are embarrassed about this game. I was at the West Brom, Colchester, Sunderland, Celtic & Chelsea games but I never got used to losing these games. For me personally the West Brom game was the one I took the hardest. Yes I believe if we had won that night we would have gone on to greater things but like the Milan game the ref was well dodgy sadly this was an era where brown bags full of readies were common place ( allegedly)
My happiest recollection from that season was seeing the end of the Clough era, why he was ever brought to the club is something I’ll never understand. Seeing him walk out the team at the Charity Shield still makes me angry. I put his appointment as one of the worst things in my 53 years of following the club.
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Re: What if? Bayern Munich 0: Leeds United 2

Postby ChilwellWhite » 29 Sep 2020, 07:38

In today’s football with VAR and every decision under scrutiny this would have been a totally different result and as the saying goes a game changer for Leeds United. As European champions players would have wanted to sign for us but the money involved was nothing compared to the riches of the Champions League. How can it be a Champions League when teams finishing 4th in their domestic leagues get a slot in this money driven game.
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Re: What if? Bayern Munich 0: Leeds United 2

Postby Westminster » 29 Sep 2020, 07:53

Clarke One Nil wrote:I think we would have done better, and attracted better new players, because of the intangible benefits of being European champions. We would have been only the second English side to win it.

But for early-teen me, what was more important was the match itself. It was meant to be the day that made up for Celtic, Chelsea, West Brom, Colchester, Sunderland, and AC Milan.

I asked Allan Clarke about that at a Leeds Legends event, and he said that Revie had instilled a resilience in that side that enabled them to come back from all of those disappointments and injustices.

The Bayern Munich game should have been the reward for that resilience.


I remember reading an interview with Joe Jordan about the aftermath of that match. Apparently, they all just trooped back to the dressing room, got changed and sat there quietly fuming. Bremner then said "well, that's it lads" and they all got up and strolled out leaving their medals behind.

Cool as you like. No histrionics, no tears. Just compare that to some of the nonsense and drama you see from players today.
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Re: What if? Bayern Munich 0: Leeds United 2

Postby Westminster » 29 Sep 2020, 08:13

NottinghamWhite wrote:I had just started a new job & was told in no uncertain terms that I couldn’t have time off for the final. I was devastated & watched the game in a local pub with friends. I’ve met many older Bayern fans who honestly are embarrassed about this game. I was at the West Brom, Colchester, Sunderland, Celtic & Chelsea games but I never got used to losing these games. For me personally the West Brom game was the one I took the hardest. Yes I believe if we had won that night we would have gone on to greater things but like the Milan game the ref was well dodgy sadly this was an era where brown bags full of readies were common place ( allegedly)
My happiest recollection from that season was seeing the end of the Clough era, why he was ever brought to the club is something I’ll never understand. Seeing him walk out the team at the Charity Shield still makes me angry. I put his appointment as one of the worst things in my 53 years of following the club.


Wow, that's some CV, mate.

The Clough era is a topic which has always interested me. On one hand, I've often wondered how things would have panned out if Giles (as Revie recommended) was given the manager's job instead of Clough. But also I've always pondered over what would have happened if Clough had been allowed to stay at Elland Road.

Undoubtedly, Clough inherited a great team when he took over at Leeds but it was also a squad that probably needed some freshening up. Clough, of course, stupidly alienated everyone from the off but his plan to bring in the likes of Peter Shilton, Colin Todd and other new players was maybe the right idea - although obviously v badly handled. Maybe Peter Taylor would have been a moderating influence if he'd have joined Cloughie at Leeds.

Either way, Clough, as we all know, went on to have great success when he was allowed to have a free hand elsewhere.

Anyway, I digress. Probably a topic for another thread.
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Re: What if? Bayern Munich 0: Leeds United 2

Postby farcebandit » 02 Dec 2020, 18:03

It would have been a glorious finale. But look how badly the Red Scum declined after their 68 win. And Forest haven't exactly pulled up a lot of trees since the early 80's. As great as Celtic were under Jock, their league season was little more than an elongated pre-season warm-up. The money from further European runs would have enabled more big name transfers - but so were Peter Barnes and Kenny Burns.
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Re: What if? Bayern Munich 0: Leeds United 2

Postby mapperleywhite » 02 Dec 2020, 18:50

farcebandit wrote: And Forest haven't exactly pulled up a lot of trees since the early 80's.


I see what you did there.....
Might have to take an interest in the Premier League now....
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