Time to plan for life after Bielsa ..

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Deleted User 728

Time to plan for life after Bielsa ..

Post by Deleted User 728 »

I am worried about burn-out, but not by the players : I'm talking about the manager.

He's so intense it's no wonder he doesn't stay anywhere for long.

What happens to this very average squad when he walks away ?
Will they lose the fitness levels that have allowed them to compete in the Prem ?
Will they lose motivation under someone else ?
Will they lose the collective ability playing a different kind of game ?

The reason I'm asking is because a close friend of mine asked if Cooper was good enough. He's an Evertonian and watched our match against Brighton, which prompted him to email me this morning.

This is what I replied in answer to his question "Is Cooper good enough ?"

No.
But he's not as bad as Bamford.

Cooper, to be fair to the lad, epitomises what Bielsa can do.
Four years ago he was about League One level.
He kicked on when given the captaincy by one of Bielsa's predecessors and became a decent option in The Championship.
Now we're finally up, he - and many other members of the squad - is/are playing at their absolute limit.
Fitness-wise, we're amazing - the fittest team in Europe I would say, when you look at all the possible ways of measuring that.
But quality will tell eventually and while he no longer makes one surefire mistake or lapse of concentration every game, they still occur from time to time, and not just by him : the whole squad does it and at this level you get punished.
Conversely, Bamford doesn't punish the opposition enough when given a chance.
Don't know if you saw the match at the weekend, but he had one gilt-edged chance that came in the form of a low, drilled cross from Alioski (love him, but saying that he's not quite good enough either, despite being the most committed player we have). The ball fizzed towards him from his left as he ran into the box and he should have hit it with his left foot, aiming across the keeper so that if it was saved, someone running in would have a tap-in.
He took an airshot.
He's taken a lot of airshots this past three years and while he has his defenders - again mostly because he always puts a shift in - they must know he's nowhere near clinical enough. He's not nasty enough. He's not selfish enough. He's not good enough.
Bamford is too slow to be a 10, not ruthless enough to be a 9 and too dithery to be an inside forward cutting in from the flanks.

Bielsa's problems are simple :
1. He never rotates unless someone is injured
2. He likes too small a squad for the modern game

I'm already worried about who takes over.
The next appointment we make as manager will be the most crucial since Sgt.Wilko.
Someone like Ancelotti would be perfect as the way he's transformed your club is amazing : he's improved what he could, flogged or left out what he couldn't and he's bought better replacements.
If we don't get that right, we'll be down again before you know it.

I don't think about burn-out of the players.
I think about burn-out of Bielsa because he's so intense, so focused.
You can only do that so long before you go nuts.

Anyway, to come back to your original question, we already have two better centre-halves than Cooper in Koch (Germany) and Llorente (Spain) both of whom play for their national sides when fit and both of whom also play as holding midfielders when they need to, so they're both Bielsa-ready ball-players.
Coops is skipper but all said and done that shouldn't be enough to keep him in the team.
I actually think when all three are fit (Llorente will play against Newcastle next weekend; Koch is probably out for the season, if not at least till April) then we could play a back three, pushing Phillips forward more and allowing the wing-backs to press even higher.

We'll be fine.
We will not go down this season : Blunts, WBA (yes !!) and one of Fulham, Palace or Newcastle I reckon. BHA have enough I think.
You should deffo end up in Europa but also could scrape fourth if you carry on. Chelsea, Man U and Spurs all have the potential to blow up. City for the title, Leicester, Liverpool 2 and 3 in whatever order.



So .. thoughts, anyone ? :think:
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SiMamu
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Re: Time to plan for life after Bielsa ..

Post by SiMamu »

I would say that we will get maybe one more season from Bielsa, but it'll probably depend on how this season ends, and possibly the next one too.

What happens to this very average squad when he walks away ?
Will they lose the fitness levels that have allowed them to compete in the Prem ?
Will they lose motivation under someone else ?
Will they lose the collective ability playing a different kind of game ?


Firstly, I feel like Bielsa has implemented a style that is now part of the identity of what it means to be Leeds. Whoever replaces him should bring a similar style to him, but with a few nuanced differences to compensate for some of Bielsa's more stubborn ways (as you touched upon: rotation and squad size. Possibly also a slight adjustment to the man marking system too).

With regards to the first 3 questions, most of Bielsa's core are all around 30, in Ayling, Cooper, Dallas, and Klich. It's only natural that they'll move on or become squad players in the coming two or three seasons. I think that they'll want to play in the Premier League for as long as they can, after trying for so many years, and they all seem like generally hard working guys. I think they'll still endeavour to maintain their fitness and motivation, even if they're no longer first choice players. Bamford, Llorente, and Alioski are also a couple years off 30 too. Meslier, Phillips, Harrison, Koch, and Raphinha have the most likely potential as long term starters, as well as possibly Shackleton and Poveda eventually.

After Bielsa, I think that the ideal coach would be someone to help us to transition from Bielsa's seniors to a younger, more Premier League capable squad. The ideal candidate would probably be the German Bielsa: Ralf Rangnick. He is to Klopp, Tuchel and Nagelsmann, what Bielsa is to Guardiola, Pochettino and Sampaoli. He can also be credited with a major influence behind the rise of the Red Bull clubs, their styles of play, and their transfer policies.
"A man with new ideas is a madman. Until his ideas triumph."
Deleted User 728

Re: Time to plan for life after Bielsa ..

Post by Deleted User 728 »

Yeah, good call about Rangnick.

We'd be off the hipster scale if we got him to follow on from Bielsa :D
corkleedsmot
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Re: Time to plan for life after Bielsa ..

Post by corkleedsmot »

Or Roberto de Zerbi. I would be very surprised with Radz being an Italian if he wasn't on the list
guitarmark
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Re: Time to plan for life after Bielsa ..

Post by guitarmark »

MB obviously loves us - But when will he think he has taken us as far as he can - He is now 65 and surely will one day wish to return home

Who replaces him is not an easy job for the board and for the fans + players - Our biggest strength is the energy level we play at - It has it flaws as a few games have shown - But we knew this - Fine for the moment when we are in PL survival mode and it can/should keep us in the 10/15 position - But 2/3 years and we want to be at least were Leicester and Everton currently are - So will a change of game plan, even at times, be required ? - Yet the other side to this and I'll use the 6-2 Man U game as reference - Is it the game plan that is wrong, or the players ability and execution of the game plan that was wrong - Granted a back 4 of Ayling, Koch, Lorrente and a dedicated LB would have helped that day and we have never had this option yet this year

The worry is a new manager arriving and having a total different game plan - Imagine going long ball Wimbledon (I know it is a polar opposite of where we are) but just an obvious big difference - Then all of a sudden the players are not the right players for that game plan - I somehow recall a quote from either Bowyer or Batty when Venables became manager, as he wanted to play a Glen Hoddle style passing game - Batty/Bowyer said it doesn't suite us and our capabilities - We had that hassle terrier style and get in the face of the opposition - Bring back Gary Mac for that passing style of game - It is part of me that likes the 'Director of Football' approach - In that why should a new manager have the power to totally redirect the game plan - Barcelona and B Munich play their style, no matter who manages the team - Imagine a new branch manager taking over Marks and Spencer and wanting to sell toys instead of bras and knickers - In the direct of football approach, then then U23 play the same way - This allows young talent to know the game plan when they are required to move into the first X1 - Great if you can find good players to bring thru' the system - Works great when you find the likes of Xavi and Inniesta etc and build such a great side with little transfer investment

Not sure who a potential replacement could be - Carlos Corberan might be to big a risk and we certainly can't afford another 16 years in tier 2 - Not even sure what is the game plan at 'Uddersfield today, despite him previously running our u23 and working with MB - We could not afford the likes of Pochettino and at the moment we are not 'big enough' to lure him - Eddie Howe is probably to steady - I actually like Bilic but not sure he is suitable for the way we currently play - But as far as up and coming managers from overseas, then I don't know who is what and available - I'm sure many of us did not know who MB was when it was first discussed - In my opinion the first thing the board needs to do is find a replacement that can take what we have, 'tweak' it a bit, but not rebuild and continue as is - Both the energy and team spirit

As a hunch I think he could go at the end of this season - 1 more at the most
Deleted User 728

Re: Time to plan for life after Bielsa ..

Post by Deleted User 728 »

Great post and I agree with pretty much everything you say.
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Selby White
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Re: Time to plan for life after Bielsa ..

Post by Selby White »

guitarmark wrote:MB obviously loves us - But when will he think he has taken us as far as he can - He is now 65 and surely will one day wish to return home
It's a good point and my gut feeling is this will be his last project.
Think we may get another year but it could be this year but have feeling summer we will strengthen enough to challenge the top 6 and he will fancy having a crack.

If he does manage after us suspect the only club would be his first love Newells Old Boys. Well that is where my best bet would be placed.
Keep your face always toward the sunshine - and shadows will fall behind you.
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ilkley62
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Re: Time to plan for life after Bielsa ..

Post by ilkley62 »

Fascinating thread, agree with most of what has been said, I just hope he steadies the ship this year, improves the squad further in the summer, & has another go next season (like most people you would think this season or next would be his last because of his age, family at home etc)

Lets hope MB & the club have have laid a platform for the next 10 years - also wonder if he's developing a string of managers for the future from the current squad, must be great for them if they want to go into coaching,management.
Costy
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Re: Time to plan for life after Bielsa ..

Post by Costy »

Wouldn't the obvious choice be one of his staff? Someone who has worked alongside him for a while and can just continue his methods. What about bringing Corberan back after he's gained some experience in the hot seat elsewhere (can't remember where he went).
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mapperleywhite
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Re: Time to plan for life after Bielsa ..

Post by mapperleywhite »

Costy wrote:Wouldn't the obvious choice be one of his staff? Someone who has worked alongside him for a while and can just continue his methods. What about bringing Corberan back after he's gained some experience in the hot seat elsewhere (can't remember where he went).
Was 100% thinking the same about Corberan, who is just down the road at dog botherers. He knows the U-23's inside out, players who will hopefully form the nucleus of our team going forward.

As an aside on this subject, with more feelings than facts to support my ideas, but does the current drop off in performances perhaps signal that a decision has already been taken about Bielsa no longer being at LUFC? For example I expected us to come out and play Bielsa-ball against Crawley - all the players are versed in it, regulars or reserves - much like how we destroyed West Brom. Yet nothing of the sort happened, added to the frankly bizarre substitutions. OK my stream was rubbish v Brighton but I didn't see MB getting up and prowling angrily, shouting instructions like before.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
Might have to take an interest in the Premier League now....
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