2022 - 2023 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Leeds United news here, transfer rumours, club affairs, players, fans, etc.
Specific match discussions should go in the category below.
Polkadot
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Re: 2022 - 2023 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Post by Polkadot »

superfox wrote:
Polkadot wrote:
corkleedsmot wrote:The smaller signings were vastly improved by Bielsa.
He bought no midfielder in 8 windows. he left us with no striker in the prem for a whole season. The incompetence is staggering.
The question here is also how many % of the blame for this is down to Orta and how many % is down to the manager (and other players around) ?

When it comes to midfielder for example, they clearly were after Gallagher which said no tu us and they had O'Brien within reach too, which we eventually decieded to not bid for. Is the missing out of O'Brien only Ortas fault or also someone elses fault?

I think it's very easy for us to sit at home and cast judgement when we only see a small part of the whole picture.
After we passed on O'Brien, we splashed a mutch bigger sum on James, so it certainly was not the case we did not have enough money.
Well yes - no one argued against that. Question is, was it 100% Orta that wanted James instead of O'Brien or what was Bielsas stand?
The thing with Bielsa is that it's really hard for us on the outside to know what he wanted and what was his stand. It's part of the mystery and beauty about him to me.
Metro1962
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Re: 2022 - 2023 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Post by Metro1962 »

If we stay up then that should send a big message that they need to invest for next season and if we do not stay up I think we will have some players may leave ( I think Phillips woll stay regardless of up or down but Raph hmmmmmm not sure but would like him to stay like most on here would say the same ) and what is left will be for the Championship with those under 23 players replacing those who have left.
Polkadot
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Re: 2022 - 2023 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Post by Polkadot »

corkleedsmot wrote: 1 number 9 in the squad and went for the season basically with no 9.
I totally understand what you mean and agree for many parts of it, but things like this is a bit strange and undermine your good arguments.
Yes, we only had Bamford as a proven Premier League striker, but let's not forget that Rodrigo is (was?) Spains number 9, Joffy is one of the most promising number 9 in the country and Roberts also previously played quite a bit as number 9.
You could always argue that these 4 players are not good enough cover (partly because Rodrigo seems to never get much time up front), but it's factually wrong to say we only had 1 number 9 in the squad.

Then it's a whole different story that with Bamford out the number 9 in most games were neither of the 3 that before the season started was considered to be number 9 alternatives got to up front...
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Barlow Boy
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Re: 2022 - 2023 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Post by Barlow Boy »

Polkadot wrote:To give a verdict on Orta I’ve tried to gather every player we’ve spent money on buying since Orta came in by the end of the 16-17 season.

17/18
Forshaw :thumbup:
Saiz :thumbup:
Jansson :thumbup: :thumbup:
Roberts :thumbup:
Alioski :thumbup: :thumbup:
Klich :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
De Bock :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
Sacko :thumbdown:
Cibicki :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
Grot :thumbdown:
Ideguchi :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
Ekuban :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
Halme :think:
Wiedewald :thumbdown:

Of the first 6 everyone but Saiz must be considered clearly successful. Also Saiz was a decent signing, things just didn't work out the right way for him to be considered really a successful signing.
Below the top 6 here there are a lot of crap, but they were also pretty cheap all of them. Low risk, potentially high reward (but no reward this time)

18/19
Bamford :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Douglas :think:
Bogusz :think:
Casilla :thumbdown:

Overall decent. Bamford big success, Casilla (the big signing) not really a success looking at expectations and salaries.

19/20
No real signings, but White, Augustin and Nketiah in on loan which should be considered.
White :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Nketiah :think:
Augustin :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

White was amazing, Nketiah mediocre and Augustin a disaster.


20/21
Rodrigo :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
Llorente :think:
Raphinha :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Helder Costa (was on loan before) :thumbdown:
Koch :thumbup:
Meslier (was on loan before) :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Gelhardt :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

21/22
James :thumbdown:
Firpo :thumbdown:
Harrison (was on loan before) :thumbup: :thumbup:
Klaesson :think:

During this period the following players came also for free or for almost nothing via the U23 setup and have been appearing at the first team several times. Some of these Orta surely was involved in, others I don’t know:
Struijk :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Summerville :thumbup: :thumbup:
Greenwood :thumbup:
Hjelde :thumbup: :thumbup:
Drameh :thumbup:
Poveda :think:
Davis :think:


In general, I think the main problem is that the expensive signings (Rodrigo, James, Llorente, Costa, Firpo) has been failing.
If we set Harrison as the border and look at the 5 signings more expensive than him (Rodrigo, James, Llorente, Raphinha, Costa, Firpo) there has been only 1 of the 6 that has been clearly a success. Also Augustin could be counted here as he was a potential very expensive signing, which failed massively.
This, the big signings, is the failed part of Orta's career at Leeds.

When it comes to players costing smaller transfer sums, I think Orta's rate of "good signings" are pretty good. To me that indicates that he is more suited for teams and leagues where there are less money availible (for example a bottom half La Liga team or a Championship team).

So, IF we get relegated I don't necessarily thinks Orta is the wrong man for rebuilding a competent Championship squad. But I don't think he should be the man building our (next) Premier League squad.
What a post that is :clap: :clap: :clap:.

I don’t agree with everything, but fair play, it must have taken some time to put that together :clap: :clap: :clap:
When you retire, you switch bosses - from the one that hired you, to the one that married you.
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Barlow Boy
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Re: 2022 - 2023 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Post by Barlow Boy »

Metro1962 wrote:If we stay up then that should send a big message that they need to invest for next season and if we do not stay up I think we will have some players may leave ( I think Phillips woll stay regardless of up or down but Raph hmmmmmm not sure but would like him to stay like most on here would say the same ) and what is left will be for the Championship with those under 23 players replacing those who have left.
I’ve mentioned this previously Metro, I thought Kalvin would stay, but after watching him at the end of the Brighton game, I’m absolutely convinced he’s gone, especially if we go down.
When you retire, you switch bosses - from the one that hired you, to the one that married you.
corkleedsmot
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Re: 2022 - 2023 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Post by corkleedsmot »

In Bielsa's system Bamford is the only proven complete forward is what I mean. A 9 in that system can play up front alone.
Rodrigo clearly couldn't fit the role or system which is why he didn't play alot anywhere. It was known in Jan it wasn't happening for sure.
He spent 30 million on a player who couldn't fit the system or be useful to the team in any way

The others were not suited to that. Roberts is a disaster who lacks quality but yeah played 9 and it is a disgrace he wasn't moved on or out on loan. He played in the most attacking team in the prem as a 10 mostly and got 1 goal and 2 assists over 2 seasons? In the end loyalty to players like him cost Bielsa his job as well. I blame Bielsa for Roberts 100%

Did he play a game as 9 in the prem though ? I am not sure. But the fact is we had Dan James up front all year so yes I might be going OTT on that one but not actually all that far OTT (that is more to do with being in a rage)

Gelhardt is great but I doubt he is a lone 9 ever and there are similar talents at a lot of other clubs. he is 20. If he was 17/18 he would be in that category. Our youth players... some of them are clearly ready for championship level football just about. They will be useful next year in the championship. but they needed to all be away on loan this season for the most part and perhaps next season if we were still in the prem. I doubt very much they push us back up to premier league and not saying that is ever going to be asked of them.

I think people judge things from 23's football but forget the best of the others are out on loan playing real football. 23's is way way off prem football and even league one football

I think deciding that you had 4 9's in that situation actually looks worse than not having a real back up for Bamford.

I am just flabbergasted in all honesty. I not arguing you off your points just like despondent that he might be allowed to continue after this. It is the the most important role at a club these days out side of manager.

We will get half the money on Raph and Phillips now, -70 mill on tv money etc and I honestly think it was harder to relegate Leeds this season than keep us up.
Buy a midfielder
Buy a forward
Buy a good inverted left winger (we supposedly looked at Diaz which is exactly the type of player we needed) Jack is very basic at prem level but a classy player for the championship. I don;t like how left footed he is and he is very very wasteful and very inconsistent
Get a solid left back.

Dan James and Firpo is what we got., oh and don't forget Lewis Bate. (who may go on to be class) A clear lack of quality footballer in the squad and we got this. That is what our DoF spent 50 million on. Scary stuff.

I am just disgusted in all honesty. I will not really have any optimism until Orta is gone. It will be found out how inept he is without a great coach handling his players.

I am far from convinced Marsch is the guy who can cover that up.
corkleedsmot
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Re: 2022 - 2023 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Post by corkleedsmot »

Barlow Boy wrote:
Metro1962 wrote:If we stay up then that should send a big message that they need to invest for next season and if we do not stay up I think we will have some players may leave ( I think Phillips woll stay regardless of up or down but Raph hmmmmmm not sure but would like him to stay like most on here would say the same ) and what is left will be for the Championship with those under 23 players replacing those who have left.
I’ve mentioned this previously Metro, I thought Kalvin would stay, but after watching him at the end of the Brighton game, I’m absolutely convinced he’s gone, especially if we go down.
It is a world cup year, Phillips is gone and he changed his agent so liekly would have moved anyway. I think he will be a City player or will at a min join the barcodes
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Barlow Boy
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Re: 2022 - 2023 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Post by Barlow Boy »

First things first, get a bid in for Charlie Taylor :thumbup:
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blackbox2342
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Re: 2022 - 2023 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Post by blackbox2342 »

Barlow Boy wrote:First things first, get a bid in for Charlie Taylor :thumbup:
Straight player swap for £15million man Firpo?
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mapperleywhite
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Re: 2022 - 2023 Transfer Rumours and Squad Discussions

Post by mapperleywhite »

Barlow Boy wrote:First things first, get a bid in for Charlie Taylor :thumbup:
:thumbup: :thumbup: My thought as well
Might have to take an interest in the Premier League now....
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