Should we keep Marsch if relegated? (Poll)

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Is Marsch right manager for the Championship (if relegated)

Yes
30
45%
No
36
55%
 
Total votes: 66

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ChilwellWhite
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Re: Should we keep Marsch if relegated? (Poll)

Post by ChilwellWhite »

Marsch isn’t the problem it’s Radz and Orta who didn’t invest in January despite long term injuries. It’s hard to point the finger at the owner as he’s the one who’s brought stability to the club but he has to stand up and be counted. Marsch hasn’t had any dealings in the transfer market so again it’s hard to criticise him overly. Marcelo did a wonderful job but again his insistence on a small squad looks like ultimately it will cost us our Premiership status. I’ve said several times before I want stability not a revolving door policy so for me he stays.
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NottinghamWhite
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Re: Should we keep Marsch if relegated? (Poll)

Post by NottinghamWhite »

Can’t really argue with CW in so much as JM hasn’t really hasn’t had a chance to build his own squad & had a hell of a hard act to follow. I again am all for stability but the knives were out for Marsch the day he took over. Yes we will be relegated but I also believe we will bounce straight back much stronger & better equipped to the challenges of the top flight.
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superfox
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Re: Should we keep Marsch if relegated? (Poll)

Post by superfox »

I wouldn't keep him even if we somehow stay up.
He looks like someone out of his depth, his tactics are perplexing, and nor does his professional background prove that he should be adhered to.
And if we get relegated, I really don't understand why we should keep him? It was his job to keep us up. If he failed, it’s unnecessary to stick to him.
IrelandLeeds
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Re: Should we keep Marsch if relegated? (Poll)

Post by IrelandLeeds »

Leeds change managers frequently, too much I feel. Give Marsh a chance, what is the alternative, Sean Dyche?.
It looks like Championship next season.
corkleedsmot
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Re: Should we keep Marsch if relegated? (Poll)

Post by corkleedsmot »

ChilwellWhite wrote:Marsch isn’t the problem it’s Radz and Orta who didn’t invest in January despite long term injuries. It’s hard to point the finger at the owner as he’s the one who’s brought stability to the club but he has to stand up and be counted. Marsch hasn’t had any dealings in the transfer market so again it’s hard to criticise him overly. Marcelo did a wonderful job but again his insistence on a small squad looks like ultimately it will cost us our Premiership status. I’ve said several times before I want stability not a revolving door policy so for me he stays.
In fairness Radz did invest 150 million over 2 seasons. It was just spent terribly. I hate that nothing was done in January but he did put money in.
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CheeznOnionPasty
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Re: Should we keep Marsch if relegated? (Poll)

Post by CheeznOnionPasty »

It's a qualified yes from me. I'm not convinced by him but I do believe we haven't seen close to his best and for various reasons he should get his chance.

We cannot risk becoming a revolving door for managers, unless you're Chelski with a bottomless sack of cash and a Russian mobster as your boss, you don't get success with changing your manager every few months. Stability and consistency is necessary and we will risk way too much if we just start chopping and changing. Think about how disruptive it is for individuals to have your boss change on the regular, and knowing that with every new boss there'll be new ways of working, new ways of training and you as an individual may not even fit the new playing model, so then you're going to get moved on and have to uproot your family etc. Stability is massively underrated in terms of getting the best performance over a long period out of a group of people.

Also, as I said, I don't believe we're seeing the best of Jesse, or even average Jesse yet. I think he got dealt an impossible hand with a small chance of success and an absolute mountain to climb - not just in terms of getting football points, but dealing with the psychology of the group, trying to manage through the upset of the guys losing a manager they all loved (I think that had a massive impact on Kalvin's mentality, he's just not been himself since Bielsa was sacked) and then try to correct some of the tactical mistakes of a predecessor who everyone believes walks on water and is a footballing savant, and you can't criticize anything he did or there'll be a witch hunt. If you really step back and put yourself in this situation, or imagine a similar situation in your own work environment, you wouldn't want to be in Jesse's shoes at all. The guy has literally been on a hiding to nothing since he stepped through the door.

In my opinion, we won't be able to judge Jesse properly until we're a month into next season. I actually still think there might be some decent football hiding in there, we've just not seen much of it yet. His Salzburg team definitely played far more attacking football than we've seen.

In my mind the blame for this season sits firmly with Victor Orta, and not Radz either.

Radz is not a footballing guy, he's an entrepreneur and a businessman. He's the Chairman, so his role is to set the culture, establish the strategy, provide the resources and then hold his team's feet to the fire whilst they execute and deliver. I would argue that he's developed a good plan, made good commercial decisions, leveraged his network and contacts effectively, brought in additional investment and stabilized the club financially. Radz has done his job.

Angus holds some responsibility, as the CEO he's responsible for the day to day execution of the plan, the running of the business and the management of employees. I say Angus has some responsibility because as CEO he should have been blowing the whistle to the board about the risks that Victor and Marcelo's recruitment strategies were posing to the club. I don't know if it's the case in actuality but I expect that Victor actually reports to Angus and not Radz, so as his boss, Angus holds some culpability for Victor's poor performance.

Lastly, as I stated above, the main issue is Victor. We've seen some great analysis on the forum this week about the success of his recruitment and unfortunately there's no other conclusion than it simply isn't good enough. Victor was also the man who recruited Marcelo, and was Marcelo's boss. So it's Victor's job to find a way, to get his manager to see the risks and to take action to mitigate them. No matter if Victor or Marcelo had the final word on recruitment, because Victor is Marcelo's boss the buck stops with him on this issue. Perhaps Marcelo did refuse some recruitment that in hindsight could have helped - that's still Victor's problem, he knew the character of the man he was hiring, he knew his preferences around squad size and recruitment, brought him in anyway, didn't manage the situation and as a result we ended up in the number 2s.

Victor - failed to recruit the right roles at the right times
Victor - failed to persuade primary targets to come to Leeds (e.g. Gallagher)
Victor - failed to recruit players who made a difference
Victor - overspent on multiple players who haven't performed
Victor - presided over the Augustin nonsense
Victor - has stated publicly that he believes in having a small squad of 18 senior pros and then the rest kids

What Victor seems to be good at is recruiting kids for the u23s, so if he's sticking around let's give him that job and get a proper director of football for the first team!
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CheeznOnionPasty
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Re: Should we keep Marsch if relegated? (Poll)

Post by CheeznOnionPasty »

lol holy cow that was a long post, got a bit carried away there, sorry!
corkleedsmot
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Re: Should we keep Marsch if relegated? (Poll)

Post by corkleedsmot »

Barlow Boy wrote:
corkleedsmot wrote:I would seriously consider looking at other managers available even if we stay up. I think he is a terrible fit after quite liking him initially but we look awful and he is a liability with the media. I don't like a manager that doesn't have an instinct to not give much to the media. Behaves like a goof and says stupid things. Sacking Bielsa was a disaster. At least with Bielsa you could be confident that we would probably rip the championship apart next time and that he would stay on principle to do that. That for me was the real risk all along, Bielsa would have stayed on and worked wonders with the young players left over.

Anyway. I will not even bother to think about this til Sunday again. I am fuming.
Out of interest, what made you like him initially mate ?
I thought he was very positive and I think we needed that. I believed it wasn't too far removed from Bielsaball. I guess I thiught he had balls too because not many would have fancied the job. I think him going on Talksport was the final.straw for me. He talked way way too much and I dont like a manager who likes media :D

I must add I am only saying we should at least consider another manager. Like Corberan if they don't go up or I would put out a feeler for Rose (sacked by Dortmund)

I still think nobody will succeed with Orta in the premier league.
MOT1964
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Re: Should we keep Marsch if relegated? (Poll)

Post by MOT1964 »

CheeznOnionPasty wrote:It's a qualified yes from me. I'm not convinced by him but I do believe we haven't seen close to his best and for various reasons he should get his chance.

We cannot risk becoming a revolving door for managers, unless you're Chelski with a bottomless sack of cash and a Russian mobster as your boss, you don't get success with changing your manager every few months. Stability and consistency is necessary and we will risk way too much if we just start chopping and changing. Think about how disruptive it is for individuals to have your boss change on the regular, and knowing that with every new boss there'll be new ways of working, new ways of training and you as an individual may not even fit the new playing model, so then you're going to get moved on and have to uproot your family etc. Stability is massively underrated in terms of getting the best performance over a long period out of a group of people.

Also, as I said, I don't believe we're seeing the best of Jesse, or even average Jesse yet. I think he got dealt an impossible hand with a small chance of success and an absolute mountain to climb - not just in terms of getting football points, but dealing with the psychology of the group, trying to manage through the upset of the guys losing a manager they all loved (I think that had a massive impact on Kalvin's mentality, he's just not been himself since Bielsa was sacked) and then try to correct some of the tactical mistakes of a predecessor who everyone believes walks on water and is a footballing savant, and you can't criticize anything he did or there'll be a witch hunt. If you really step back and put yourself in this situation, or imagine a similar situation in your own work environment, you wouldn't want to be in Jesse's shoes at all. The guy has literally been on a hiding to nothing since he stepped through the door.

In my opinion, we won't be able to judge Jesse properly until we're a month into next season. I actually still think there might be some decent football hiding in there, we've just not seen much of it yet. His Salzburg team definitely played far more attacking football than we've seen.

In my mind the blame for this season sits firmly with Victor Orta, and not Radz either.

Radz is not a footballing guy, he's an entrepreneur and a businessman. He's the Chairman, so his role is to set the culture, establish the strategy, provide the resources and then hold his team's feet to the fire whilst they execute and deliver. I would argue that he's developed a good plan, made good commercial decisions, leveraged his network and contacts effectively, brought in additional investment and stabilized the club financially. Radz has done his job.

Angus holds some responsibility, as the CEO he's responsible for the day to day execution of the plan, the running of the business and the management of employees. I say Angus has some responsibility because as CEO he should have been blowing the whistle to the board about the risks that Victor and Marcelo's recruitment strategies were posing to the club. I don't know if it's the case in actuality but I expect that Victor actually reports to Angus and not Radz, so as his boss, Angus holds some culpability for Victor's poor performance.

Lastly, as I stated above, the main issue is Victor. We've seen some great analysis on the forum this week about the success of his recruitment and unfortunately there's no other conclusion than it simply isn't good enough. Victor was also the man who recruited Marcelo, and was Marcelo's boss. So it's Victor's job to find a way, to get his manager to see the risks and to take action to mitigate them. No matter if Victor or Marcelo had the final word on recruitment, because Victor is Marcelo's boss the buck stops with him on this issue. Perhaps Marcelo did refuse some recruitment that in hindsight could have helped - that's still Victor's problem, he knew the character of the man he was hiring, he knew his preferences around squad size and recruitment, brought him in anyway, didn't manage the situation and as a result we ended up in the number 2s.

Victor - failed to recruit the right roles at the right times
Victor - failed to persuade primary targets to come to Leeds (e.g. Gallagher)
Victor - failed to recruit players who made a difference
Victor - overspent on multiple players who haven't performed
Victor - presided over the Augustin nonsense
Victor - has stated publicly that he believes in having a small squad of 18 senior pros and then the rest kids

What Victor seems to be good at is recruiting kids for the u23s, so if he's sticking around let's give him that job and get a proper director of football for the first team!
CheeznOnionPasty wrote:lol holy cow that was a long post, got a bit carried away there, sorry!
No need to apologise as that was a long but excellent post, with which I fully agree.
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PhoenixUnited
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Re: Should we keep Marsch if relegated? (Poll)

Post by PhoenixUnited »

Jury is still out for me whether he should be retained or not whether we get relegated or not. To be fair, he's not had a full deck to play with what with a squad decimated with injuries, senior players filtering back after long lay offs and needing time to get back to match fitness, being handed a team in a parlous position in the Premiership on the back of a good few tonkings in 2022. I admit I am unimpressed on how he has gone about putting together a makeshift team; putting Raphinha to play RWB FFS! :shock: :roll:
He has an odd way of expressing himself and indeed is given to open his mouth a bit too often and uttering platitudes.
His success or failure depends so much on what support he gets from Andrea Radrizanni, Victor Orta (who really needs to be sent on his way IMHO) and to a lesser extent Angus Kinnear. He's had a bit of success in his career and on balance I think he deserves a chance to show what he can do. I can't think of alternatives either so ...........
Keep The Faith / WAL
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