THAT offside West Brom goal, 1971

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THAT offside West Brom goal, 1971

Postby Deleted User 130 » 25 Jul 2013, 17:55

I was lucky enough to be at a Frank Skinner gig last night in Birmingham where they're raising funds for an ace statue of the 'Three Degrees'. Frank interviewed on stage a few of the old faces of WBA history, including John Wile who played in that lousy defeat in 1971 which cost us the league title. Not only did Wile say he thought Colin Suggett might have 'just' been offside... by about 20 yards... he also admitted that the team all thought that Astle was offside too seconds later.

Suggett was 'canny' as Wile put it, in that he knew he definitely was interfering with play but effectively conned the ref. So there Mr Stark, put that in your pipe and smoke it, the West Brom players always thought the goal should have been disallowed :mrgreen:
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Re: THAT offside West Brom goal, 1971

Postby Sheepy » 25 Jul 2013, 18:03

Here it is:

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Re: THAT offside West Brom goal, 1971

Postby NottinghamWhite » 25 Jul 2013, 18:37

Have made my feelings known about this. I still say it was offside, Ray Tinkler will always be a pantomime villain to Leeds fans.
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Re: THAT offside West Brom goal, 1971

Postby Sheepy » 25 Jul 2013, 21:52

I watched a program about this quite some time ago and they said that the first 'interception' was deemed by the referee as unintentional and that's why the ref waved play on. It doesn't look it to me because he sticks his knee out. I suppose the ref might have been unsighted though. The second phase is definitely offside though by the looks of it.

'A decision, or a non-decision that will be talked about for years' - he got that right!
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Re: THAT offside West Brom goal, 1971

Postby Malcolm Stark » 25 Jul 2013, 22:09

I'll just say this. Colin Suggett was in an off-side position.

The referee had every right to allow play to continue, given he thought Suggett was in an inactive position.

Norman Hunter had every chance to make up for his terrible pass, and track Brown back to the penalty area, given there was never any whistle.

Astle may well have been offside, but only if he was ahead of Brown when Brown played his forward pass on the edge of the area. TV replays are totally inconclusive in whether Astle was ahead or behind Brown at that moment.

The only person who could have flagged Astle offside was way, way behind play, with his flag still in the air.

If Leeds had beaten bottom-placed Blackpool back in March, you'd have been Champions and we wouldn't even be talking about this goal now.

Leeds did not blow a seven point lead over Arsenal due to this one goal. Arsenal's twenty-nine wins was tough to beat, and it proved to be the highest-quality ever two horse title race.

I'd rather celebrate the positives of that, than ponder on the negatives. It was just a hell of a time for football. Leeds, at their very, very best, just ran into the best-ever Everton team, and the best-ever Arsenal team in successive seasons.

Love you all, good night!
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Re: THAT offside West Brom goal, 1971

Postby Selby White » 25 Jul 2013, 22:32

Malcolm,
You rattle on about Arsenals 29 wins but the fact remains that they won the title by one point, so that goal did influence the title.
Had Leeds drawn that match 1-1 they would have took the title on goal average (72-29 against Arsenals 71-29).

Yes we as fans will always be bitter about that goal, irrespective of your motives.
Keep your face always toward the sunshine - and shadows will fall behind you.
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Re: THAT offside West Brom goal, 1971

Postby Malcolm Stark » 25 Jul 2013, 22:45

Just a quick one, Selby. If you'd drawn that game 1-1, then Arsenal would have known they'd have to beat Spurs by two goals in their last match of the season, on that Monday night before the Cup Final, and might have played the game differently. It's all hypertheticals, really.

But I believe, honestly, if you'd beaten Blackpool, Newcastle or Huddersfield in the weeks before that Albion match, as you really should've done, or avoided defeat at Chelsea, as you were better than them, you'd have taken the stuffing out of Arsenal, and won the league clear.

Your seven point lead on the 10th March (ten points under a three-points-for-a-win system) would not have been breached.

I don't have any motives. When I first came on here, I came in with a huge diatribe, but now I see that I was wrong, but they are just my honest opinions, consistent with the Laws of the Game at that time.
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Re: THAT offside West Brom goal, 1971

Postby Malcolm Stark » 26 Jul 2013, 00:41

I mailed Gary Edwards, after reading No Glossing Over It, and he mailed me back, on three occasions. First, he said that Ray Tinkler had never even responded to his attempts at communication. Secondly, he said that his books were from the perspective of a born and bred Leeds United fan, so that was a recognized literary style. And thirdly, he wished me the very best, which I greatly appreciated.

On reflection, I say these three things...

1. Ray Tinkler, in spite of my support of him in regards to the Laws of the Game, was a c*nt.

2. Leeds should have won that 1970-71 title.

3. Leeds would then have easily won the league title, the following season.

On point 2, I don't really give a toss, as long as the Cup Final went the same way. That Charlie George goal celebration was just the best ever, at that time, and I can still only think of Balotelli's "WHY ALWAYS ME?" celebration as up there with it. On English soil.

On point 3, while Man City should have won the title, but collapsed under the heavy arrival of Rodney Marsh, and Liverpool shouldn't have won it, but very nearly did. Leeds United should have won it, and they SHOULD have won it. Derby won it, in the end, despite never been regarded as the best team. Derby's defence, which fept 25 clean sheets, missed only about a dozen games, though, overall, and they were the fairest team in England that season.

Over the seven seasons 1967-73, Man Utd, Man City, Leeds, Everton, Arsenal, Derby and Liverpool all won the league. It was a feat that has never been repeated. If you ask anyone, though, who was the best team of them all, over those years, it would be Leeds United. They were the best.

I'm 49 now, but if I die at 99, the one team that affected me more than any other in my life was THAT Leeds team.

I absolutely loved Newcastle's "Entertainers", from 92-95, they were the finest United team I ever saw, and ever will see. But if I was asked how they'd do against the 68-74 Leeds team, I'd be worried.

Actually, deep in my heart, I'd know that Bremner and Giles would have Lee Clark and Paul Bracewell's numbers, would control the game, and romp to a 2-0 win.

There's no need to be bitter anymore, but I'll have a pint of bitter, if you're offering....
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Re: THAT offside West Brom goal, 1971

Postby Selby White » 26 Jul 2013, 07:46

The goal is one aspect we disagree on but I was at the match we are talking about and that wasn't the only iffy decision made by Tinkler, in fact if my memory serves me correct the whole match was a string terrible decisions.
You state rules of the game, well the qualified linesman thought it offside and wasn't in position for the 2nd offside (Astle).
The riot after the goal was the straw that broke the camels back.
Disagree about the Chelsea match was always tough for Leeds going there, if two groups of players hated each other at that time it was Leeds and Chelsea. They always raised their game against us and it could always go either way as for the other bad results I think every team as bad days thats the nature of the game, difference between the top and other teams back then was much closer than in the Prem now (bit like the championship now).
Keep your face always toward the sunshine - and shadows will fall behind you.
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Re: THAT offside West Brom goal, 1971

Postby Deleted User 130 » 26 Jul 2013, 07:50

I'm certainly not bitter. I just wish that someone would bloody take notice of my initial post in which West Brom players admit that the goal should have been ruled out :mrgreen:

Leeds didn't lose any of those games they were forced to play on neutral grounds, therefore to say we lost the League that season because of those results is dubious to say the least. Never ever ever EVER has a home stadium or crowd scored a goal or dictated a match result :D
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