GREXIT

[NikosAGr1985]

Should I stay or should I go now? If I go there will be trouble - An' if I stay it will be double. So come on and let me know. #TheClash

Discuss...

We have until Sunday!
What do the people in the UK think about all this mess we 're in? Seriously the situation here is getting more and more

[johnh]

The ONLY solution is for Greece to get out of the euro. It will not be easy and will cause problems for a considerable length of time. However, staying in the euro will mean problems, on-going, for ever. The country that benefits most from the euro (particularly a weak euro) is Germany and Germany will not support any action which will diminish that benefit. If any proof were needed about the extent of Germany's influence over the EU, consider the reporting on the Greece situation. Its not Greece negotiating with the EU, its Greece negotiating with Merkel.

[NikosAGr1985]

Exiting the Eurozone now will automatically mean the loss of money in bank accounts. The banks have no money, but people have still money on their bank accounts, savings of a lifetime which will be lost completely. The government in order to save the banks will need to lend money to them and we are talking big money. This will mean it will need to print money which will in itself lead to the drastic devaluation of the new currency.
Salaries, pensions, deposits (what's left of them) will essentially become pennies.
As a result we simply end up with the same consequences scenario A (signing of a new memorandum of understanding with the drastic measures that accompany it) has, ie loss of income and property, humanitarian crisis, extended poverty etc.
Exiting the Euro is not a solution in the peoples' interests if we are talking about an economy where the banks have long now defaulted (essentially) and rely on government lending. An economy that relies heavily on imports which are paid in euros.
Since the 80's - 90's most factories here went north (Bulgaria, Romania etc) due to the EU laws (Maastricht Treaty). The farmers were subsidized from the EU to stop producing. We were a country that could feed itself without the need to import heavily goods and now we import even tomatoes and olives!
It will not be easy= it will be a total chaos. Prepare to accept thousands of greek illegal immigrants.

[NikosAGr1985]

In short, John, I agree with what you are saying about Germany. They control the EU.
But I also don't want to die fighting for the USA's interests that want to take control over the EU or move the cost of the EU debt (France, Italy, Spain) to Germany.
Because the "game" here is a fight between EU/GERMANY and allies/NEA DIMOKRATIA on one hand vs USA/IMF/SYRIZA government on the other. With the BRICS eager to profit from any change in the political alliances that will occur.
No disrespect but the situation is not that simple.
We are very much in danger of becoming another Ukraine here.

[mapperleywhite]

Exiting the Eurozone now will automatically mean the loss of money in bank accounts. The banks have no money, but people have still money on their bank accounts, savings of a lifetime which will be lost completely.

OK so if they take it out in cash now and convert it back into new drachmas they have their money? But if they leave it in the bank they lose it? Sorry for the question, but it doesn't seem right....

[Deleted User 972]

I dont think they can even take it out,I heard 50 a day was the max they could take out!. I stand to be corrected though!

[mapperleywhite]

Last night I was having a quite heated discussion on this subject with our Portuguese neighbour, who is a PhD student, and very much an idealistic leftie, following somewhat in her father's footsteps as he was a politician.

The one thing we agreed upon was that any solution now should be aimed at providing something that is best one for the Greek people.

The rest was a huge disagreement, constantly with reference with Portugal's similarity to Greece in being a 'peripheral' country...

However, my opinion is rather a simplistic, and possibly incorrect, one but I find a 'no' referendum vote very disturbing as it basically says the Greeks are not prepared to pay back the 300 billion euros it owes to its creditors. (It begs the question as to where did all this money go when there is so much economic hardship for ordinary Greeks). It's a HUGE amount of money for a country of 11 million people.

So we started talking about the banks being the ones who a) participated in the lending of the money, and b) no doubt profited from it. I don't have any facts on that.

Then we talked about the EU. For non UK residents, it's instructive to know that the last time we had a vote about the Common Market, as it was in 1975, we signed up for a trade agreement. We didn't sign up for closer political, social, legal or monetary links. I'd like to think that this is something of the message that Cameron is trying to deliver to Brussels as background to our upcoming referendum on EU membership.

In the medium term closer trading links benefit all parties - we live in a capitalist world, after all. That's the kind of deal I'd like the EU to have with, for example, Turkey and Ukraine. Greece could also have a favourable arrangement of this sort, but it's clear the monetary union has been a disaster for them.

We're not especially comfortable with the radical left-wing stance of the government in Athens, but suggestions that Greece could easily align itself with Russia face a huge stumbling block - the country is a NATO member.

The newspapers here on Sunday predicted a huge problem on the markets as a result of a No vote in Greece. It hasn't happened.

We are in a new age with a new situation facing us. Let's hope it ends well for every day people......