Bielsa v Marsch

[DominanceUK]

I think it’s almost impossible to compare them ...

I think Nottingham White’s analysis is perfect.

For me, the reason this is such an emotional issue is that Marcelo was more than a football manager, and he built more than a football team at Leeds.

He transformed the culture of the club and the fans by mixing joyful entertaining football with humility, integrity, ethics, and wisdom that went beyond short-term results.

When you combine that with the revival of the women’s team and the community work done by the club, I thought the board had also bought into that worldview.

Instead they sacked Marcelo after a poor run of results against top teams. However, we also had poor runs at the start of the last two calendar years, and we recovered each time to lose only once for the rest of the season.

And even if they did feel justified in reverting to short-term results to make major decisions, I thought the way they sacked him was disgraceful.

So the reason it hit me so hard is that the board had built up my expectations of them acting more ethically than previous regimes or typical football clubs, then reminded me how naive I was to expect that.

I don’t think it is possible to compare Jesse Marsch to any of that. He seems like a decent, ambitious football manager that any club would be proud of, and I hope he brings as much glory to Leeds as I have hoped for with any of our managers.

But whatever happens this year will be tainted by how the board sacked Marcelo. They restored my childhood passion for football as something magical, then reminded me that it is now effectively a money game.

Excellent post, Clarke

[The Squirrel]

Our results under Jessie are no different than I think we would have got under MB.

I like JM and its not his fault we are going down, nor that of Bielsa. The fault lays entirely with recruitment. It was simply not good enough in the summer. I like James, but I fail to see why we spent 28m on a winger who hasn't offered that much more than we already had and Firpo is a salary thief. We needed a central midfielder and we have done for two years. The failure to get anyone in January is the final straw as just as we get Kalvin back, we lose Forshaw and Dallas. So we now have TWO senior central midfielders.

Its honestly laughable that we have spent almost all the season without an actual centre forward up front and have switched various central defenders in the DM role.

[NottinghamWhite]

I do wonder about the recruitment of Jesse, who made the decision was it Radz or the 49ers who want to promote the club across the pond so they bring in an American manager. I’ve only just noticed he was assistant to Ralf Rangnick at RB Leipzig. Marsch comes across as the clean cut all American guy who seems an ideal fit for the 49ers. Clearly Jesse was waiting in the wings as there was no worries about a work permit & his back room staff were already in place. So the club waited for the right time to fire MB & then put all their plans into place.

[MOT1964]

I do wonder about the recruitment of Jesse, who made the decision was it Radz or the 49ers who want to promote the club across the pond so they bring in an American manager. I’ve only just noticed he was assistant to Ralf Rangnick at RB Leipzig. Marsch comes across as the clean cut all American guy who seems an ideal fit for the 49ers. Clearly Jesse was waiting in the wings as there was no worries about a work permit & his back room staff were already in place. So the club waited for the right time to fire MB & then put all their plans into place.

https://www.tribalfootball.com/articles ... ob-4408478

Leeds United boss Jesse Marsch has revealed he was first tapped by sporting director Victor Orta two years ago.

Marsch succeeded Marcelo Bielsa as new Leeds manager in February.

"The reason I came here is because two years ago the sporting director Victor Orta, during the first lockdown, set up a zoom call with me," Marsch told SiriusXM. "He said that 'we scout players and we scout coaches.

"'We always need succession plans for every position within the club and we need one for our manager as well. We evaluated our top 42 managers in Europe, their style of play, management style, and when we crunched the numbers, your name was at the top of the list'.

"He showed me the data of what Bielsa did with the team, how the team had played and showed me the data of what my teams were like and he said we think you're the perfect next manager for us. So, I was incredibly flattered at the time, I had never seen anyone do any evaluation of that on me and how I might fit somewhere and I was naturally really, really impressed.

"The more I got to know Victor and the more I got to know the project here at Leeds, I got more and more excited. That's the most important thing to understand is how do you in life find the connections that give you the opportunity to be yourself and put your principles into practise.

"That's what I have learned about this business, the more like-minded people that I can work with, the easier the job will be. And I am very lucky to have that here at Leeds."

[Barlow Boy]

At the end of the day MB has gone. We can't live in the past. We all need to get behind JM. I'll take a bore draw over an hammering everyday of the week, twice on sunday. Forget about using injuries as an excuse, it was papering over the cracks. Teams got wise to us. Our last 3 transfer windows were appalling and MB was a factor in that. Do I miss the excitement? Yeah, of course I do. But Leeds Utd will always come first before any manager or player

A picture is beginning to develop here, between those who go to games and those that don’t (someone pointed it out on twitter recently).

Those who go every week miss Bielsa dearly, the passion, the exciting football, the attacking football, the man himself, the atmosphere he created. Those who go every week are bored with Marsch’s tactics, boring football, boring pressers, dull personality and sheer lack of excitement.

Those who don’t go see the result as all that matters.

I don't want to argue with you pal but you make it out that the fans that attend the games are bigger than the ones who dont. I live and breathe this club and I always will

Absolutely not, a fan of Leeds United is a fan of Leeds United whether they go or not, read this forum or not, live somewhere else in the world or not (I have a 10 month old grandson living in Australia who is a big Leeds fan )

I’m just pointing out an observation that I initially saw on Twitter which I’m starting to think may be correct.

[Selby White]

I'm not going to change my mind we shouldn't have replaced Bielsa when we did and that is a dig at those that run the Club and not at Marsch.
If it had to be done it should have been in the summer.

Why ?
Yes we were struggling but thought the club were devious making the move following a run of games against top six teams and prior to games against Villa and Leicester who were both on poor runs at that time.
I always fancied us getting something from those games, Bielsas system had worked against those teams before its the way to play them IMHO.
Of course its an opinion but we went into those two games with players still learning a new system, I believe it cost us points which could prove expensive.

Some of course will point to Burnley changing their manager but they haven't changed their style just produced better. Must admit their results have surprised me, sure they have a bit of luck but i take my hat off to them. Still hope they lose their last four.

Someone posted last week they would rather stay up with Marsch than go down under Bielsa but as nothing is exact found it a stupid statement as everything is opinion and not fact. I'd just rather we stay up and thought the change was more risky an opinion I'm entitled to.

I've nothing against Marsch but as yet not convinced by him, hope over time he changes my mind. I'll still be 100% behind his team no matter what.

[Another Northern Soul]

"Those who go every week miss Bielsa dearly, the passion, the exciting football, the attacking football, the man himself, the atmosphere he created. Those who go every week are bored with Marsch’s tactics, boring football, boring pressers, dull personality and sheer lack of excitement."

The above is an argument that isn't worth arguing about, to generalise all match-goers as being bored etc, and those who don't go to matches being the opposite, is irrelevant and, well, wrong

[DominanceUK]

At the end of the day MB has gone. We can't live in the past. We all need to get behind JM. I'll take a bore draw over an hammering everyday of the week, twice on sunday. Forget about using injuries as an excuse, it was papering over the cracks. Teams got wise to us. Our last 3 transfer windows were appalling and MB was a factor in that. Do I miss the excitement? Yeah, of course I do. But Leeds Utd will always come first before any manager or player

A picture is beginning to develop here, between those who go to games and those that don’t (someone pointed it out on twitter recently).

Those who go every week miss Bielsa dearly, the passion, the exciting football, the attacking football, the man himself, the atmosphere he created. Those who go every week are bored with Marsch’s tactics, boring football, boring pressers, dull personality and sheer lack of excitement.

Those who don’t go see the result as all that matters.

I don't want to argue with you pal but you make it out that the fans that attend the games are bigger than the ones who dont. I live and breathe this club and I always will

Absolutely not, a fan of Leeds United is a fan of Leeds United whether they go or not, read this forum or not, live somewhere else in the world or not (I have a 10 month old grandson living in Australia who is a big Leeds fan )

I’m just pointing out an observation that I initially saw on Twitter which I’m starting to think may be correct.

Apologies buddy

[TelfordLeeds]

Bielsa is the best thing to have happened to Leeds since Don Revie's era. The whole setup including the U23's was right, we were just so unlucky with injuries before the U23's were quite ready. It was a great era to be a fan and it is hard to see such times being repeated in the near future.

[Polkadot]

Beggars the question and considering today's formation why Shackleton played 90 mins for the 23s so not on the bench today.

Because he's been injured and hasn't been in match squad since March 13th. He needed game time, to hopefully be ready for some minutes in the upcoming matches if ready / needed. There is no reason to believe that Schakleton would be deemed ready to play yesterday if he didn't play the U23 game as he has been injured and not played for a long time.

Shacks was on the bench

Maybe you misunderstood part of what I tried to say, I know he was on the bench.
He was on the bench because he had survived the U23 game and the alternative would be a kid that never would play anyway.
That he has been injured and not played for the first team is the reason why he played a full 90 with the U23s. He survived that and got a spot on the bench, but there was never any reason to expect him being involved unless something unlikely happened.

If he DIDN'T play the U23 he clearly would not be more likely to play. That's what I answered too, as it seemed the Fonz meant Shackleton should not play with the U23 to be involved against City instead. But then he wouldn't be match fit.