The Damned United film

[Sheepy]

We'll have to agree to disagree here, NW. Forest did win two League Cups under Cloughie in the late 80s

True, but one was against Luton Town in 1989 who was struggling in the lower reaches of the first division, and the other was the year after in 1990 against Oldham Athletic who at the time were a division below Forest (old Division 2). They were at best a top 7 club.

I think Taylor was the brains behind the partnership, Cloughie did win trophies after him as you say, but had the luck of the draw. His end in football where Forest were relegated was a tragic and sad end to his career. He should have quit years before.

[Mr Russell]

I remember watching the weekly football show here in Oz when Forest got relegated and at their last game of the season they had a little story on Cloughie, it was a sad end to his career and seeing him before the game he looked like he'd aged 50yrs that final season (think 92/93). Good manager (but not for Leeds) but a sad finale.

[Malcolm Stark]

We'll have to agree to disagree here, NW. Forest did win two League Cups under Cloughie in the late 80s

True, but one was against Luton Town in 1989 who was struggling in the lower reaches of the first division, and the other was the year after in 1990 against Oldham Athletic who at the time were a division below Forest (old Division 2). They were at best a top 7 club.

I think Taylor was the brains behind the partnership, Cloughie did win trophies after him as you say, but had the luck of the draw. His end in football where Forest were relegated was a tragic and sad end to his career. He should have quit years before.

That's a fair point Sheepy, but Forest did KO fellow First Division sides Coventry (twice), Leicester, QPR, Palace, Everton and Spurs (after a replay) en route to their two League Cup Final appearances.

"The luck of the draw" doesn't really add up, and the fact that they were definitely cheated out of that 84 UEFA Cup Semi-final (considering Leeds suffered the same misfortune in 73 and 75) isn't even considered, plus their 91 Cup Final defeat, shows he was a half-decent manager at least.

Also, "at best a top 7 club" is harsh a statement, considering Forest never finished outside of the top nine during the nine years after Taylor left Forest, and finished in Third place on three occasions.

Following Leeds United after Don Revie left would prove to be an uglier picture, I'd suggest? I think, all in all, Cloughie proved himself as a manager at the top level, even without Taylor beside him, although the loss of Taylor eventually destroyed him as a person....

[Deleted User 2299]

I love Stephen Graham as an actor but as Bllly Bremner, well that was just a no no!!

[USA for Leeds]

I cowrote a film based on actual events, and I can tell you that it is impossible for filmmakers to portray history accurately. You just can't do it. There are limits to film that force filmmakers to change the story. Sometimes history just isn't interesting enough. Sometimes events have to be combined or rearranged to fit time constraints. Often different events are combined.

The best films that are based on history capture the spirit of the event. That's the best you can expect.

[Year Zero ITK]

I cowrote a film based on actual events, and I can tell you that it is impossible for filmmakers to portray history accurately. You just can't do it. There are limits to film that force filmmakers to change the story. Sometimes history just isn't interesting enough. Sometimes events have to be combined or rearranged to fit time constraints. Often different events are combined.

The best films that are based on history capture the spirit of the event. That's the best you can expect.

Portraying history accurately is one thing, but making up match dates/results in a sports film is a separate matter. I am pleased for people who enjoyed the film but for me the makers created 'fictions' when there was no need, that book is near faultless as a work of fictionalised entertainment, the film did not even respect the spirit of the book never mind the reputations of some of the main characters.

That cast, as well as the people portrayed in the film, deserved a higher quality movie.

[Malcolm Stark]

I cowrote a film based on actual events, and I can tell you that it is impossible for filmmakers to portray history accurately. You just can't do it. There are limits to film that force filmmakers to change the story. Sometimes history just isn't interesting enough. Sometimes events have to be combined or rearranged to fit time constraints. Often different events are combined.

The best films that are based on history capture the spirit of the event. That's the best you can expect.

Portraying history accurately is one thing, but making up match dates/results in a sports film is a separate matter. I am pleased for people who enjoyed the film but for me the makers created 'fictions' when there was no need, that book is near faultless as a work of fictionalised entertainment, the film did not even respect the spirit of the book never mind the reputations of some of the main characters.

That cast, as well as the people portrayed in the film, deserved a higher quality movie.

You kind of said everything I said, ITK, but in many less words. Thread probably needs closing after that...?

[stewpot01]

True, but one was against Luton Town in 1989 who was struggling in the lower reaches of the first division, and the other was the year after in 1990 against Oldham Athletic who at the time were a division below Forest (old Division 2). They were at best a top 7 club.

I think Taylor was the brains behind the partnership, Cloughie did win trophies after him as you say, but had the luck of the draw. His end in football where Forest were relegated was a tragic and sad end to his career. He should have quit years before.

I agree wholeheartedly with the comments regarding the Clough / Taylor partnership, although i still think Clough was the brains and Taylor the man-manager - just as any excellent AM should be - although Clough did function well enough without him for a short while when they briefly parted company and it picked up again once they got back together.

The movie is total BS - apart from the "Throw your medals in the bin" comment. I wouldn't even waste any more time watching the dross.
Clough was NEVER going to be accepted here and I could not understand at the time why he was appointed, and still cannot even now. Just why the board would not give Giles the opportunity we will never know,although I do know that Couzens was not a great fan of Don Revie and may have baulked at his recommendation out of spite. I don't believe that he and the other directors had no idea of what trouble it would bring appointing Clough. He only ever did one good thing here and that was signing McKenzie. O'Hare and McGovern where disasters who, like the manager, would never be accepted. it's all if and buts now, but it would have been interesting had Clough be able to stay,but the samec ould be said for Jock Stein.

[Year Zero ITK]

Stewpot, I think you mean Manny Cussins, am I right? TBH I do doubt he had any issues with Revie, it was a couple of the other directors who resented him recommending Johnny Giles as his successor. I suppose, to be completely fair, it is not such a big deal their feeling that way, but still... CLOUGH, for God's sake!

[stewpot01]

Stewpot, I think you mean Manny Cussins, am I right? TBH I do doubt he had any issues with Revie, it was a couple of the other directors who resented him recommending Johnny Giles as his successor. I suppose, to be completely fair, it is not such a big deal their feeling that way, but still... CLOUGH, for God's sake!

Yes, sorry about the spelling . Sorry, but I had family friends who worked at ER at the time and Cussins did not care for Revie that much, and for the life of me still don't know why.

It was unanimous to reject Giles, Earl Harewood did say some years later it was a very poor decision. Giles himself was less than impressed if you read his book - A Football Man. One of my old school teachers lived next door to Giles and he said the Leeds did not consider him good enough.