How Good Are Our Academy Players

[Jazz My Funk]

I am wondering how good the likes of Cook, Byram, Taylor really are. Are we talking exceptional or an average PL player?

I really don't believe England has had many World class player's in the last 30 years, the last being Scholes and Gazza before that.

Can anyone see anything special about them?

[SiMamu]

Byram - difficult to say now he's changed position. I don't think he's ever going to be world class or be considered one of the best in his position. I think he could be a depth player for a UCL team or a starter for a Europa League/top half team. I think he might get a few caps, but I'm not sure if he'll establish himself as a starter for England.

Mowatt - mid-table to top half EPL level.

Taylor - mid-table EPL level, maybe a solid depth option for a top half team.

Cook - England international, starter, lynchpin of a title battling team.

[Costy]

Good as it would be, I have major doubts about mowatt playing premier league football for any meaningful length of time. Just doesn't have the pace or, as is becoming apparent, stamina. Is he better than Stephen mcphail or johnny howson? No, and neither of them could cut it.

[phil62]

Of the ones I have seen play, only Cook has premier league potential for me. Mowatt is too slow, Byram is a decent defender or midfielder but not outstanding as either, and Taylor I reserve judgement on as I've only seen him play once. They don't match up to the likes of James Milner or Aaron Lennon, probably our two best exports of recent years, who could both cut it in the premier league as it is today.

[SG90]

Hard to say as the highest level they've played is the Championship. The likes of Lennon and Milner were playing in the PL at 16, Woodgate played for England at 19, Smith was a regular at 18 etc, so I think the praise of Cook has been a bit OTT so far tbh. But I'd say Cook is the best of the four and will be a PL staple.

[Deleted User 728]

This all depends on how you classify players.
The OP stated that Scholes was the last "world class" English player.

I'd disagree with that.
At one time, we arguably had a fair few : Gary Neville, Rio, Terry, Ashley Cole, Becks, Gerrard, Lampard and Owen.
Neville at one point had played more games than anyone else in the CL - again, arguably (undeniably in my view) a higher standard of football than any other competition on the planet.
Rio was always an amazing player. If he was Brazilian, blah blah ..
Terry was consistently voted into the Best XI of whatever tournament England played in.
Cole is easily the best left back in the world since Maldini.
Becks, Gerrard and Lampard - again, all with considerable CL experience, goals, assists, captaincy, etc.
Owen - till his injuries took their inevitable toll - won the Ballon D'Or and is in the FIFA 100, along with Beckham incidentally.

Of our squad, both current and recent, I always thought Howson would play for England but not Delph. Can't see the latter ever being a regular anyway - he probably won't pick up another cap, to be honest, and I see him more as a latter day Jenas in that he's pretty good at everything and a solid EPL pro but not international class.
Snoddy was always the best player outside the top division when he was with us - a truly outstanding talent, no matter his lack of pace.
Byram will be a solid Premier league pro, no more. Same for Taylor at left back I think, while Cook should push on a level higher and play for a club with European aspirations, if not actual achievement.
Trouble with saying that is that English players rarely get the chance at the top five or six clubs. Milner's ready to leave City now the other midfielders are coming back from injury and he's not starting every week, despite being their most consistent player all season. Who can blame the guy ? I really hope he goes to Real or Barca and sits in that holding role, shuttling around with Mascherano or someone of that ilk. He's 29 now, too - can't believe that !

I actually think that Mowatt might go the furthest of the lot from our team. He's got the technique, he's bulked up well this season and he really looks ready now.

Anyway, for what it's worth, this is how I'd rank players:

ALL-TIME GREAT
Maradona, Pele
Cryff, Best, Di Stefano, Puskas
Beckenbauer, Zidane, Charles .. and that's about it (the three levels are deliberate)

WORLD CLASS BEST OF THE BEST
Platini, Bergkamp, Cafu, Eusebio, Matthaus, Bobby Charlton, Bobby Moore, Van Basten, Baresi, Maldini, Yashin, Banks, Gert Muller, Messi, Ronaldo (both), etc ..

WORLD CLASS
This is a huge list of players who've excelled at one or more WC or EC tournaments, plus shone in European club competitions:
50s - Matthews, Edwards, Hidegkuti
60s - Law, Fachetti, Garrincha
70s - Jairzinho, Keegan, Zoff
80s - Gullit, Rossi, Zico
90s - Stoichkov, Figo, Romario
00s - Ronaldinho, Henry, Buffon

INTERNATIONAL CLASS
Solid regulars in their national team with 40+ caps
Milner, Kewell, Overmars

EUROPEAN CLASS
Play for clubs that regularly finish in the qualifying positions for European club competition in the big leagues (England, Spain, Germany, Italy and France)
Phil Neville, Steve Bruce, Lauren Robert

EPL Level Pro
Jack Cork, Fabian Delph, Gary Kelly

Championship Level Pro (or equiv. smaller Euro leagues, eg SPL)
Yann Kermorgant, Jermaine Beckford, David Prutton

Lower league Pro (or equiv. smallest Euro leagues)
Andy Hughes, Matt Smith, James Hayter

[Costy]

Can't believe Messi isn't in your all time greats list rigger. Undoubtedly the best player there has ever been. And I know it's not exhaustive, but how could you miss out Iniesta from best of the best? Unbelievable player!

[Deleted User 728]

Can't believe Messi isn't in your all time greats list rigger. Undoubtedly the best player there has ever been. And I know it's not exhaustive, but how could you miss out Iniesta from best of the best? Unbelievable player!

I disagree.
Despite what I said about the CL being better than the World Cup, the latter is still massively important and defines greatness in players, especially those in the top half dozen countries which Messi undoubtedly is.
Maradona won the World Cup virtually on his own in a VERY average Argentina team.
Messi wasn't even the best player in their XI during Brazil 2014 - it was a toss up between Masch and di Maria.
Plus, the Spanish league is a procession.
For me, it's a bit like arguing that Henrik Larsson should be in there for what he did at Celtic.
Alright, that's an exaggeration because he HAS done it in the CL as well, but even that can be easy till the knockout stages.


BESIDES ALL THAT : it's unfair to compare them till their careers actually end.
It's like my argument with music - you can consider how an album ranks against the best of the past till it's had time to mature ... same with singers and bands, or movies and actors, TV shows and books.

You need perspective.

[Deleted User 728]

Those top level countries are Brazil, Germany, Italy, France, England, Spain and Argentina - all World Cup winners, of course.
The star players from these nations have a hell of a platform to make an impact.
I'd even include Holland in that list, too - especially considering what Cruyff, Gullit, Van Basten, Bergkamp, et al have managed down the years ..

Poor old Cristiano might as well be Northern Irish - he's got as much chance of lighting up a Euro or World Cup as George Best ever did ..

[isrodger]

Byram with the right coaching coud pick up a cap or two. He had all the attributes, however his versatility coukd hamper his progression. I'd lilken him to phil Neville. Could reach that level. Top six club.

Mowatt, is hampered by a lack of pace. Reminds me a little of speed and Bradley Johnson. I think he could be a good premiership player, if he progresses. Stoke city/WBA

Cooke - I raved on about him from the minute I saw him. He is class, a younger fabregas / Scott Parker type. I can see him playing at the very top. I think his carrer may mirror that of Battys.

Taylor - not really seen him so can't comment. Sounds like he could be a useful premiership full back.