So many things we disagree on! I dont need perspective, i just need to watch what he does with the ball and how many times he has destroyed high class opposition over the last decade. Incredibly consistent over a long period. Watch any youtube compilation: he has scored literally dozens and dozens of amazing goals and made many more assists. I think the idea that the Spanish league is a procession is also a bit of a fallacy: their mid table teams are every bit as good as ours and in fact often show that they are better when it comes to things like europa league. Of course they have a clear top two (incidentally, neither of which are current champions) but is that any different to here?rigger wrote:I disagree.Costy wrote:Can't believe Messi isn't in your all time greats list rigger. Undoubtedly the best player there has ever been. And I know it's not exhaustive, but how could you miss out Iniesta from best of the best? Unbelievable player!
Despite what I said about the CL being better than the World Cup, the latter is still massively important and defines greatness in players, especially those in the top half dozen countries which Messi undoubtedly is.
Maradona won the World Cup virtually on his own in a VERY average Argentina team.
Messi wasn't even the best player in their XI during Brazil 2014 - it was a toss up between Masch and di Maria.
Plus, the Spanish league is a procession.
For me, it's a bit like arguing that Henrik Larsson should be in there for what he did at Celtic.
Alright, that's an exaggeration because he HAS done it in the CL as well, but even that can be easy till the knockout stages.
BESIDES ALL THAT : it's unfair to compare them till their careers actually end.
It's like my argument with music - you can consider how an album ranks against the best of the past till it's had time to mature ... same with singers and bands, or movies and actors, TV shows and books.
You need perspective.
Finally, I think the idea that a player is only an all time great because he's won the world cup is plain wrong. It's a cup competition which is always a bit of a lottery. Maradona was undoubtedly a genius but it's very possible he wouldn't have even got to the final had he not blatantly and outrageously cheated. And are you really suggesting that bobby charlton should be held in higher esteem than messi? Messi's Argentina were also a distinctly average team(no tevez , no aguero, an unfit di Maria who for me did not play well) who still reached the final (at the expense of a much better Holland team) largely because of Messi's moments of brilliance and of course a great set of performances from mascherano.
I just don't think a player could do much more! In my opinion he's clearly the best and as a football fan it's a privilege to have have witnessed his career.
I know this isn't the thread for this debate but so what, it's a good one!
