Do Appearances = Success?

[Norn_Iron_Leeds]

Good appoint about the midfield general/captain Mellor.

It's interesting that Bamba is considered to be an experienced player and the leader of our defence. He actually only has 231 career apps which is quite low compared to Baptiste (422), Michael Dawson (365) and Curtis Davies (351) at the other clubs.

[johnh]

Impressed by your work NIL but I don't think you need a mass of stats to identify our problem. There have been enough posts on this site. Experienced centre-back who can win headers. Experienced playmaker in mid-field. If we persist with one up-front we need someone who has pace and stamina (not necessarily experienced) Wood has neither. Someone like Makail-Smith who does happen to be experienced.

[Norn_Iron_Leeds]

I just think our squad is close to being able to get out of the championship. Just a few more experienced players should be enough.

Whenever I tell people that I'm a Leeds fan they often respond with how much they loved O'Leary's team of kids at the turn of the century. What often gets over looked is that squad full of young players also contained the vast experience of Martyn, Radebe and Batty. Our current squad is young and talented but we are lacking that experience.

You're right about the unneccessary mass of stats though lol. That was just because of boredom in work!

[Mellor]

I think the level at which appearances are made is also important. Easy to see why Bamba and Wood are no longer playing for Foxes for instance.

Every player in our squad could be improved on, so too the manager and owner. That, as they say, is life.

Perhaps next season we'll introduce 1 or 2 players of genuinely superior quality, it can't be easy unscrambling a transfer ban for breaking FFP rules and at the same time recruiting super duper ex Prem level players. Time will tell.

The players you mention would improve our squad for sure. I'd be interested to know how much they're paid.

Here's another interesting point, I'm a bit boring on this one but I think it matters - 4 of the top 6 have new grounds (other two have 'small' grounds). Willing to bet they're cheap to run compared with ER which is, being brutally honest, too big for a championship side 12 years out of the Prem. Looking around the ground v Rotherham was really sad. A cup game against local rivals who had just beaten us in the league for £20 and no one turns up. Beyond sad really. Not criticising folk for staying away, It's not ntional service, just sad to see so many empty seats.

And 16,000 in a ground holding 16,000 will always rock more than a 37,000 capacity ground with the same 16,000 fans.

[Another Northern Soul]

So Rosler and Warburton don't deserve much credit as they didn't oversee transfers?

If the Moneyball method was so good then why isn't it widespread in soccer?

Martyn was an excellent keeper with superior ability over most, his experience wasn't the main reason he was so effective. Just my opinion, keepers are good, calming influences in the defence but it's their shot-stopping capabilities that inspires outfield players the most.

I agree though, we do need more proven & experienced players in the team but that is one of many problems with the current squad. We are closer to getting out of this division by relegation than by promotion, no offence to anyone when I say that.

[Another Northern Soul]

The mention of Joey Barton as a useful acquisition for Leeds has warranted plenty of debate on here. I admire his ability as a player and a second-rate leader but I wouldn't want him/his reputation near the club. We've got way too long a record of convictions in the hierarchy as it is without having convicts in the team too

[Mellor]

Aren't Brentford doing something statistical rather than allowing the manager to recruit his old boys? Whatever they're up to its started working again under the new manager. Fancy Dallas moving down a step with our pay structure (somebody will tell me he wasn't offered a new contract now I expect)

A baggageless Barton would be good.

[Norn_Iron_Leeds]

So Rosler and Warburton don't deserve much credit as they didn't oversee transfers?

If the Moneyball method was so good then why isn't it widespread in soccer?

Martyn was an excellent keeper with superior ability over most, his experience wasn't the main reason he was so effective. Just my opinion, keepers are good, calming influences in the defence but it's their shot-stopping capabilities that inspires outfield players the most.

I agree though, we do need more proven & experienced players in the team but that is one of many problems with the current squad. We are closer to getting out of this division by relegation than by promotion, no offence to anyone when I say that.

The reason I mentioned Martyn was because his experience could be passed on to Paul Robinson. I'm not saying he was good because of his experience.

It is actually very wide spread. Just unfortunately in other examples it hasn't been as successful. Have you heard of Damien Commoli? He was the sporting director at Spurs and then Liverpool. He used the statistics method and it wasn't very successful. Unfortunately pretty much every Liverpool signing he made except Suarez was a bust.

Wenger uses it at Arsenal and it's been pretty successful there.

Unfortunately it isn't a full proof method but I was just putting forward the idea that it might work for Leeds because quite frankly other approaches haven't worked in recent years.

[Another Northern Soul]

Mate, I respectfully opine that it has very limited chances of success in soccer. I loved the film btw and I did mean it when I said there'd be higher chance of success in a more individualist sport like cricket. All in my opinion. But anyway, there are various reasons we've screwed up at Leeds in terms of recruitment and most of them have to be put down to what the owner or chairman is prepared to agree with the manager or FFS 'coach'. Cellino backed Rosler in the summer and it all looked promising. For whatever reason, it hasn't worked out and I personally suspect he gave up on the season a couple of months ago and isn't interested in spending much until maybe the new season.

[lufctrav]

I believe that the most successful average age group in sport is usually 27-29 for the core of the team. Of course there will be players either side of that bracket but the majority and most of the key players will fall into that grouping after having spent multiple seasons developing and growing as a team.
You are on the right track i feel but you need to factor in other statistics to go with appearances. Points per start for example. under Warnock we had a lot of experience but how much winning experience was there? I wouldn't have thought a whole lot considering half of them were from Portsmouth in seasons prior.
An all youth approach doesn't work because you do need good experienced leaders to teach the younger players. When playing sports you learn about the game from your peers that you share the park with. Coaches teach form/technique.
There is room for a moneyball approach in all sports but it isn't 'the answer'. There is no true answer, it's finding what works best for yourself, not others.