HECK BASHING - a mod-free zone - say what you like ..

[Deleted User 728]

Not one single Leeds player has played consistently well this season, IMHO, not one.

I disagree.

I think O'Kane has been consistently shyte all campaign.

I have no idea why he keeps starting games

[Another Northern Soul]

Not one single Leeds player has played consistently well this season, IMHO, not one.

I disagree.

I think O'Kane has been consistently shyte all campaign.

I have no idea why he keeps starting games

You missed the word 'well' in my comment, it's quite important

[swindonwhite]

Thanks-- Only using Jan 1st as a yardstick to show the horrific form we have been in since PH has arrived.As for the statement staying in the Championship next season has to be the main aim -- my god that would be the end of my 47 years of passion & loyalty & the majority of our massive fan base I would like to think.

You'd like to think the majority of our fanbase would pack in supporting the team?

If the once mighty Leeds United aim for next season was to make sure we remain in the Championship bloody right what statement would that be sending out to the fans. season ticket sales would rocket always reach for the stars not the the top of some hill.

[DominanceUK]

Apart from Hernandez is there any other player who we could say has had a successful season?

Good point, that, and I'll take you up on the challenge with a few I think have improved this season :

Stuart Dallas
He's played in more positions than any other time in his career to date, proving his worth as a utility player.
He may not have played any of them particularly well, but I would say he's a more valuable squad member after this season's exploits.
I would still prefer he focused on developing his game as a left-sided inside forward because he looked quite good cutting in from that flank in the first few games of the current campaign and we'll probably need someone there if - as I suspect - we've already lined up a deal for Saiz.

Kalvin Phillips
He's played (38) and started (33) more league matches than at any other time in his career and also scored more goals (5). On the other hand, he's also tripled the number of yellow cards year on year, from 4 to 12, so he needs to watch that. Still inconsistent, but he's also still 22.

Ronaldo Vieira
Another young midfielder, but one who's grown up more quickly for me and who is playing to a consistently higher level with a much higher potential ceiling to his ability, Vieira has had a few injuries and not quite played as many games but is still an important member of the first team squad. Back to his rampaging best recently.


Definitely gone backwards :
Berardi - the Newport game aside when he rose to the challenge of being captain, this has been a season to forget as he's lost discipline way too often.
Jansson - believes his own hype and far too much of a hot head at this stage of his career. Won't last five minutes on the pitch against cleverer players, week in, week out.
O'Kane - just a nothing player. At least he seemed to win a few tackles last year and recycled possession quickly enough, but this season he's drifted through games barely making any kind of impact ..

100% agreed on the players you've mentioned that have gone backwards, Rigz. I don't, however, agree that Phillips and Vieira have improved from last season. Phillips has been used more this season but apart from August he's gone backwards, he looks lost. He needs experience in the middle with him, if we get that, he may improve - as you pointed out he's only 22. Vieira is a huge talent for sure and he has time on his side but over the last 6 months or so he's looked jaded, that could be because of a long season last year with us and the International side in the summer. I'm at odds with Dallas atm. I do like his versatility and he always puts in 100% but watching him over the last month or so he is incredibly wasteful with his crossing and passing. I would keep him though for next season as a squad player.

[Another Northern Soul]

Thanks-- Only using Jan 1st as a yardstick to show the horrific form we have been in since PH has arrived.As for the statement staying in the Championship next season has to be the main aim -- my god that would be the end of my 47 years of passion & loyalty & the majority of our massive fan base I would like to think.

You'd like to think the majority of our fanbase would pack in supporting the team?

If the once mighty Leeds United aim for next season was to make sure we remain in the Championship bloody right what statement would that be sending out to the fans. season ticket sales would rocket always reach for the stars not the the top of some hill.

I haven't seen or heard such a quote TBH but I don't believe anyone would be satisfied with that, including the manager and more importantly his employers.

[SG90]

Apart from Hernandez is there any other player who we could say has had a successful season?

Good point, that, and I'll take you up on the challenge with a few I think have improved this season :

Stuart Dallas
He's played in more positions than any other time in his career to date, proving his worth as a utility player.
He may not have played any of them particularly well, but I would say he's a more valuable squad member after this season's exploits.
I would still prefer he focused on developing his game as a left-sided inside forward because he looked quite good cutting in from that flank in the first few games of the current campaign and we'll probably need someone there if - as I suspect - we've already lined up a deal for Saiz.

Kalvin Phillips
He's played (38) and started (33) more league matches than at any other time in his career and also scored more goals (5). On the other hand, he's also tripled the number of yellow cards year on year, from 4 to 12, so he needs to watch that. Still inconsistent, but he's also still 22.

Ronaldo Vieira
Another young midfielder, but one who's grown up more quickly for me and who is playing to a consistently higher level with a much higher potential ceiling to his ability, Vieira has had a few injuries and not quite played as many games but is still an important member of the first team squad. Back to his rampaging best recently.


Definitely gone backwards :
Berardi - the Newport game aside when he rose to the challenge of being captain, this has been a season to forget as he's lost discipline way too often.
Jansson - believes his own hype and far too much of a hot head at this stage of his career. Won't last five minutes on the pitch against cleverer players, week in, week out.
O'Kane - just a nothing player. At least he seemed to win a few tackles last year and recycled possession quickly enough, but this season he's drifted through games barely making any kind of impact ..

It's a result of poor coaching than them being bad players. I certainly for one do not believe we're worse than Preston, Bristol City, Sheff Utd, Millwall who are all now comfortably above us.

[SG90]

Thanks-- Only using Jan 1st as a yardstick to show the horrific form we have been in since PH has arrived.As for the statement staying in the Championship next season has to be the main aim -- my god that would be the end of my 47 years of passion & loyalty & the majority of our massive fan base I would like to think.

You'd like to think the majority of our fanbase would pack in supporting the team?

If the once mighty Leeds United aim for next season was to make sure we remain in the Championship bloody right what statement would that be sending out to the fans. season ticket sales would rocket always reach for the stars not the the top of some hill.

No hypotheticals about it, this is the current state of season ticket sales. AR has a lot making up to do and is deluded if he thinks we'll settle for no ambition.

[Deleted User 728]

It's a result of poor coaching than them being bad players.

I've seen this phrase and variations on it a few times this past couple of days and I'm completely baffled by it.
What exactly do those using it mean by "poor coaching" ??


Technique can't be coached out of someone.
Vision can't be coached out of someone.
Composure can't be coached out of someone.
Decision-making, anticipation, work-rate and the ability to read the game can't be coached out of someone.
Good players do not become bad players just because they're playing for one manager as opposed to another.


Players can be played out of position.
Poor tactics may be employed.
The wrong starting XI may be selected.
Ineffective instructions can be issued to a group of players.


Is that what you mean by "poor coaching" ??


Good players are good players. End of.
Admittedly, certain players can be more effective under certain conditions (think Cloughie with John McGovern or Garry Birtles) and likewise the reverse is true (Luke Shaw and Paul Pogba under Mourinho right now) but the latter two remain excellent footballers even if they're not showing it right now, while McGovern and Birtles over-achieved under a manager who prized - ironically - side before self every time and set the team up to reflect certain traits amongst his favoured personnel.

That's why the number one problem I have with Heck and with TC and definitely with Monk is that they ALL played in exactly the same way, week in, week out : 4231, ball on the deck, possession-based football, working the ball into the box.
This isn't the Champions League. We're not Barcelona. O'Kane isn't Iniesta and Jansson isn't Piqué.
What's wrong with knocking it long sometimes, or playing 442 against weaker opposition, or packing the midfield against strong sides (most others in the division, this season) or letting the goalkeeper punt it downfield if we're under pressure. This is back-to-basics football, the kind every single team in the world plays when they're under the cosh - it's the basic DNA of the game and has been for sixty years.
Fancy tactics come and go - they're rumbled and acted upon, then the whole cycle starts up again. Right now, three at the back is enjoying a renaissance, but for how long ?
None of the top clubs play 4231 anymore anyway, so it's not like we're trying to play like the clubs in the EPL is it ?


The single thing I've been banging on about for about three years now is to change the shape of the team.
We're SO PREDICTABLE.
We're so outnumbered in midfield.
We're so slow getting forward.

We also rely on the same core of players all the time, too, but that's another gripe.

I've wandered off topic a bit, and in a way I think I've actually come to agree with the original point : bad coaching is killing our chances, but not by making the players worse. That can't happen in three or four seasons IMHO - or even ever.
What can happen is they can be poorly set-up and made to look worse than they are, which is what's been happening at Leeds United since Simon Grayson left.


... and incidentally, I don't think he's the answer, either. Most of his "amazing stats" are down to the promotion-winning season when we clawed our way back up from the third division, so don't think he's the messiah.

[Deleted User 728]

Hmm i have not posted for the last 6 weeks or so as I am so fedd up with this motley crew -players coaches managers owners & uncle tom cobley and all.in my view this has been the worst season since dropping out of the premiership and how some people would be happy to let Mr loser carry on into next season is insane. have been checking on stats & let me share with you where we are at. If the season had started on jan 1st 2018 Leeds would be cast adrift at rock bottom which means that if we had not had such a good start to the season we would be certain to be relegated. Another stat researched is had we started Jan 1st 2018 Leeds would/are in the bottom 3 places for any division in the uk digest that a while and then make you're case for Mr loser

SW, I respect your views as much as ever but please, please, please stop using insulting nicknames for people.
I don't know whether you read anything in here during your non-posting six week sabbatical but we've been trying to clamp down on such derogatory terms because we'd like to think this forum is above childish name-calling.

Please just refer to the person by their name or position in the club from now on.

This goes for everyone.

I won't edit this post in order to make the point but I will in future.

[ilkley62]

It's a result of poor coaching than them being bad players.

I've seen this phrase and variations on it a few times this past couple of days and I'm completely baffled by it.
What exactly do those using it mean by "poor coaching" ??


Technique can't be coached out of someone.
Vision can't be coached out of someone.
Composure can't be coached out of someone.
Decision-making, anticipation, work-rate and the ability to read the game can't be coached out of someone.
Good players do not become bad players just because they're playing for one manager as opposed to another.


Players can be played out of position.
Poor tactics may be employed.
The wrong starting XI may be selected.
Ineffective instructions can be issued to a group of players.


Is that what you mean by "poor coaching" ??


Good players are good players. End of.
Admittedly, certain players can be more effective under certain conditions (think Cloughie with John McGovern or Garry Birtles) and likewise the reverse is true (Luke Shaw and Paul Pogba under Mourinho right now) but the latter two remain excellent footballers even if they're not showing it right now, while McGovern and Birtles over-achieved under a manager who prized - ironically - side before self every time and set the team up to reflect certain traits amongst his favoured personnel.

That's why the number one problem I have with Heck and with TC and definitely with Monk is that they ALL played in exactly the same way, week in, week out : 4231, ball on the deck, possession-based football, working the ball into the box.
This isn't the Champions League. We're not Barcelona. O'Kane isn't Iniesta and Jansson isn't Piqué.
What's wrong with knocking it long sometimes, or playing 442 against weaker opposition, or packing the midfield against strong sides (most others in the division, this season) or letting the goalkeeper punt it downfield if we're under pressure. This is back-to-basics football, the kind every single team in the world plays when they're under the cosh - it's the basic DNA of the game and has been for sixty years.
Fancy tactics come and go - they're rumbled and acted upon, then the whole cycle starts up again. Right now, three at the back is enjoying a renaissance, but for how long ?
None of the top clubs play 4231 anymore anyway, so it's not like we're trying to play like the clubs in the EPL is it ?


The single thing I've been banging on about for about three years now is to change the shape of the team.
We're SO PREDICTABLE.
We're so outnumbered in midfield.
We're so slow getting forward.

We also rely on the same core of players all the time, too, but that's another gripe.

I've wandered off topic a bit, and in a way I think I've actually come to agree with the original point : bad coaching is killing our chances, but not by making the players worse. That can't happen in three or four seasons IMHO - or even ever.
What can happen is they can be poorly set-up and made to look worse than they are, which is what's been happening at Leeds United since Simon Grayson left.


... and incidentally, I don't think he's the answer, either. Most of his "amazing stats" are down to the promotion-winning season when we clawed our way back up from the third division, so don't think he's the messiah.

Good post - and if you are right it leads to the biggest problem for all teams - loss of confidence as a group