Bielsa sacked - have the Club made the right decision?

[Nic]

Going back to the original question - Have the Club made the right decision ?

As said earlier I believe morally "NO"

So purely from a results point of view I will keep an open mind and judge in May by comparing remaining games against what points MB got against the same teams.
Only way I can think of doing it as justification by the Club was results.
Appreciate its not an exact science, lot may depend on players available, Jesse may actually have the advantage there if he gets Kalvin & Paddy back and keeps others fit.

So here we go (MB's points in brackets)
Leicester (1) - ?
Villa (1) - ?
Norwich (3) - ?
Wolves (1) - ?
Southampton (0) - ?
Watford (3) - ?
Chelsea (0) - ?
Crystal Palace (3) - ?
Man City (0) - ?
Arsenal (0) - ?
Brighton (1) - ?
Brentford (1) - ?

MB = 14pts which would have given us a total of 37ptwhich I believe would comfortably keep us up.
Over to you JM.

How did you come to what points MB would have got? I guess it's just the results from earlier in the season, as it's not last seasons points (below is this season v last season at a glance). It is very hard to say what MB would have got compared to JM, are we talking how we performed in the first dozen or so matches or the last half dozen when our expected form took a massive dip from the poor form it was. Unsure if you can just take the games from the first half, as can be seen from last year often different H/A e.g. Villa we won away last season, but only drew this season, do for the home match where we lost last season you thing we would have drawn?



We improved in a few games from last season but mostly performed worse (obvious by the points difference, but it might not be obvious that we got a better result in 5 games )

So for the 12 games including Leicester, then maybe you expect 2 better, 4 the same and 6 worse. So last season we W5D2L5.
Lets say the 2 better are two losses into WD, 4 the same must incl L3, so also a W, the 6 worse are the D2 and W4 (lets assume all 4W are just Draws (best outcome)). So W2D4L5, gives us 10 points. Finishing the season on 33.

Might be enough, might not be, however the drawing games we've won overall does seem to be what happened in first 26 games

[Selby White]

Going back to the original question - Have the Club made the right decision ?

As said earlier I believe morally "NO"

So purely from a results point of view I will keep an open mind and judge in May by comparing remaining games against what points MB got against the same teams.
Only way I can think of doing it as justification by the Club was results.
Appreciate its not an exact science, lot may depend on players available, Jesse may actually have the advantage there if he gets Kalvin & Paddy back and keeps others fit.

So here we go (MB's points in brackets)
Leicester (1) - ?
Villa (1) - ?
Norwich (3) - ?
Wolves (1) - ?
Southampton (0) - ?
Watford (3) - ?
Chelsea (0) - ?
Crystal Palace (3) - ?
Man City (0) - ?
Arsenal (0) - ?
Brighton (1) - ?
Brentford (1) - ?

MB = 14pts which would have given us a total of 37ptwhich I believe would comfortably keep us up.
Over to you JM.

How did you come to what points MB would have got? I guess it's just the results from earlier in the season, as it's not last seasons points (below is this season v last season at a glance). It is very hard to say what MB would have got compared to JM, are we talking how we performed in the first dozen or so matches or the last half dozen when our expected form took a massive dip from the poor form it was. Unsure if you can just take the games from the first half, as can be seen from last year often different H/A e.g. Villa we won away last season, but only drew this season, do for the home match where we lost last season you thing we would have drawn?



We improved in a few games from last season but mostly performed worse (obvious by the points difference, but it might not be obvious that we got a better result in 5 games )

So for the 12 games including Leicester, then maybe you expect 2 better, 4 the same and 6 worse. So last season we W5D2L5.
Lets say the 2 better are two losses into WD, 4 the same must incl L3, so also a W, the 6 worse are the D2 and W4 (lets assume all 4W are just Draws (best outcome)). So W2D4L5, gives us 10 points. Finishing the season on 33

Yes used this seasons points against the same teams (with the same squad), it's what MB got against the teams we still have to play.
Simple comparison but as said many factors to consider its certainly not a exact science especially when you factor in injuries.

[Nic]

Going back to the original question - Have the Club made the right decision ?

As said earlier I believe morally "NO"

So purely from a results point of view I will keep an open mind and judge in May by comparing remaining games against what points MB got against the same teams.
Only way I can think of doing it as justification by the Club was results.
Appreciate its not an exact science, lot may depend on players available, Jesse may actually have the advantage there if he gets Kalvin & Paddy back and keeps others fit.

So here we go (MB's points in brackets)
Leicester (1) - ?
Villa (1) - ?
Norwich (3) - ?
Wolves (1) - ?
Southampton (0) - ?
Watford (3) - ?
Chelsea (0) - ?
Crystal Palace (3) - ?
Man City (0) - ?
Arsenal (0) - ?
Brighton (1) - ?
Brentford (1) - ?

MB = 14pts which would have given us a total of 37ptwhich I believe would comfortably keep us up.
Over to you JM.

How did you come to what points MB would have got? I guess it's just the results from earlier in the season, as it's not last seasons points (below is this season v last season at a glance). It is very hard to say what MB would have got compared to JM, are we talking how we performed in the first dozen or so matches or the last half dozen when our expected form took a massive dip from the poor form it was. Unsure if you can just take the games from the first half, as can be seen from last year often different H/A e.g. Villa we won away last season, but only drew this season, do for the home match where we lost last season you thing we would have drawn?



We improved in a few games from last season but mostly performed worse (obvious by the points difference, but it might not be obvious that we got a better result in 5 games )

So for the 12 games including Leicester, then maybe you expect 2 better, 4 the same and 6 worse. So last season we W5D2L5.
Lets say the 2 better are two losses into WD, 4 the same must incl L3, so also a W, the 6 worse are the D2 and W4 (lets assume all 4W are just Draws (best outcome)). So W2D4L5, gives us 10 points. Finishing the season on 33

Yes used this seasons points against the same teams, it's what MB got against the teams we still have to play.
Simple comparison but as said many factors to consider its certainly not a exact science.

Had gathered and edited it (but kept it in). I don't think anything can be an exact science comparing how we've changed since last season is subjective, as is comparing remaining games to those played earlier. Teams form changes over the season. How we played over last half dozen matches was worse than you'd expect, so would rest of the season had deteriorated further? Last season we upped our game at the end, would we do so again and MB kept us up despite the poor run prior to being sacked, especially as we normally do a lot better against lower teams then top teams.

You would like to think MB would have got the needed results, but its the Newcastle, and more so, the Everton games that cause doubt as to whether it would be the case this time.

[Leicester White]

Depends how personally hurt he is by the situation, sometimes if something upsets or pees you off enough you can't even bring yourself to look at it can you? On the other hand he's got such a deep connection with us he might literally not be able to look away.

I hope he follows us and I hope we as a club maintain a good relationship with him - I do think that having a Bielsa tribute match in the off-season between Newells and Leeds would be the most amazing thing to do for him and for both clubs, I really hope the leadership team at Leeds agree and organize a gesture of that kind of magnitude.

What a great idea... can you tweet it to the management team. I'd travel to Argentina for that.
I thought renaming Thorpe Arch was a great shout too.
Jesse is saying the right things... let's hope the players run with his ideas effectively and we get some wins to stay up.

Agree - superb idea - But should be at ER so 35/36K can be there to applaud him and say thanks

Even better!

[MOT1964]

Phil Hay
@PhilHay_

Marcelo Bielsa flew home to Argentina last night, the symbolic end of his time at Leeds United.

[Selby White]

Phil Hay
@PhilHay_

Marcelo Bielsa flew home to Argentina last night, the symbolic end of his time at Leeds United.

Sad, I'm still disgusted at the way it was handled by the Club.

[Barlow Boy]

Phil Hay
@PhilHay_

Marcelo Bielsa flew home to Argentina last night, the symbolic end of his time at Leeds United.

Sad, I'm still disgusted at the way it was handled by the Club.

Seconded., absolute shocker of a decision.

I said previously, Radz gets rid of Bielsa and we go down, get ready Radz as things will turn ugly, very ugly. It did last night to a certain degree against Villa, but that will be a fairy’s tea party to how bad it could get.

[Leicester White]

I was disappointed to hear Tony Dorigo towing the company line in his pre-match talk... pretty much said Bielsa had to go because of results... I understand he's paid by the club, but no need to sell your soul - given his previously voiced admiration for Bielsa, it didn't compute for me. Massive gamble that's badly losing at the moment. Quite arrogant of Board really to think that they know someone else would be better at man management, leadership and coaching and getting results and performances out of the group of players we have. Quite ruthless to sack the person we as fans love the most in the entire club and perhaps have loved more than anyone in the club's history (probably looking at U-50 fans here with a certain Don in mind). It doesn't bode well for loyalty - I've never seen that many people leave early from ER, voting with their feet. Think that Villa fan song last night might catch on "where's Bielsa gone?" to the tune of "where's your Momma gone".

[The Fonz]

I was disappointed to hear Tony Dorigo towing the company line in his pre-match talk... pretty much said Bielsa had to go because of results... I understand he's paid by the club, but no need to sell your soul - given his previously voiced admiration for Bielsa, it didn't compute for me. Massive gamble that's badly losing at the moment. Quite arrogant of Board really to think that they know someone else would be better at man management, leadership and coaching and getting results and performances out of the group of players we have. Quite ruthless to sack the person we as fans love the most in the entire club and perhaps have loved more than anyone in the club's history (probably looking at U-50 fans here with a certain Don in mind). It doesn't bode well for loyalty - I've never seen that many people leave early from ER, voting with their feet. Think that Villa fan song last night might catch on "where's Bielsa gone?" to the tune of "where's your Momma gone".

Sums it up when opposing fans highlight the glaring error we have made with their songs.

[The last Waltz]

How Radz felt any manager could come in and change / improve performances mid season from a group of players who have been coached and drilled to a degree where plays become more or less become muscle memory is beyond me.

He will have 200 million reasons to reflect on his stupid decision and ridiculously short sighted lack of investment in the summer, when when we get relegated.