Bielsa v Marsch

[Another Northern Soul]

Will u also blame marsch for the negative goal difference he inherited

Not sure you've understood the points that they have made TBF.

[morris474]

I understand the argument about the magic Bielsa brought to matches. But we have to move on. The jury is still very much out on Marsch, and we have to hope he can keep us up. For me the main reasons we are in the predicament we are in is our lack of a goal scoring centre forward. Our failier to sign an out an out goal scorer has cost us. This coupled with the lack of a midfielder to cover for Phillips has posibly cost us our PL place. I hope we stay up but lack of transfer activity particularly at no 9 has left Marsch with a lot to do.

[Tedbaker]

I was willing to give Marsch a chance. But the last two games were terrible because the team were clueless. Bielsa would never had let the discipline slip so much. I understand why they made the Bielsa decision but given hindsight this was a poor decision. Marsch had a good track record at RB Salzburg but inherited a team. But at RB Leipzig he failed and that was a better example of what he inherited here.

My biggest problem is I don’t see a plan or any vision. I think we’re going to waste a lot of money in the summer. Bielsa had single minded vision. Marsch has a management committee with senior players. This might work in business but I’m not sure this works with highly paid men in their mid twenties. I’m not sure the current lot can rebuild a football team when inevitably most of the current and marketable players leave.

The players initially bought into the plan. But a plan based on just pressing upfront (I can’t see much else) is not much of a plan.

[Polkadot]

How does it look against the same teams if you want to compare.

If we should compare those 9 games with Marsch to the games against the same teams under Bielsa this season we will get:
Marsch 11 points against Leicester, Villa, Norwich, Wolves, Southampton, Watford, Palace, City and Arsenal.
Bielsa 12 points against the same.
Goal difference Marsch 10-14, goal difference Bielsa 10-18.
Bielsa had 5 home games, Marsch 4.

The remaining 3 games against Chelsea, Brighton and Brentford gave us 2 points and 4-5 in goal difference.
Marsch probably need to outscore Bielsa in these three to even hope staying up.

This comparison is not really relevant as it’s such a small number of games, and in football there are so many variables that should be taken into context. But the channel is called Bielsa v Marsch so it’s very much on topic atleast, even if it’s not useful as one is gone and the other is here. No matter how the head-2-head look.

10 games in against the same opposition:
(Leicester, Villa, Norwich, Wolves, Southampton, Watford, Palace, City, Arsenal, Chelsea)

Marsch 11 points, goal difference 10-17
Bielsa 12 points, goal difference 12-21

The remaining two fixtures against Brighton and Brentford gave us 2 points with Bielsa, goal difference 2-2.

[Shadwell White]

Am I mistaken or did I hear JM initially talk about players going into tackles at full speed knowing there was a team mate behind him. We have seen to instances of this in the last two games and neither turned out well.

[Barlow Boy]

When I’m at the games I like to keep an eye on the dug outs.

I used to enjoy watching Bielsa charging up and down barking instructions, the players gained motivation from it, visibly they lifted. If it wasn’t Bielsa, it would be one of his assistants. Crazy, but really enjoyable stuff

I watched Marsch last night, hands in his pockets, motionless, saying nothing, doing nothing, just literally stood there with his hands in his pockets. No wonder the players don’t have any idea what they are supposed to be doing, Marsch himself doesn’t.

Someone mentioned in hindsight it was a bad decision sacking Bielsa, for many on the forum, we said it at the time a joke of a decision and an even worse one getting Marsch in. Up there with the appointment of Hockaday.

[saihtam]

Call me crazy but I think Marsch was planned to swap Bielsa out already in long before it was needed. Was planned for summer, switch to American owner and American manager. Radz gets a good profit from selling huge club like us who are still in PL.

Roll in beginning of the year, board saw opportunity to do quick swap already mid season and blame bad results for this. This would eas down fans feelings if it would be done in summer for no other reason. Bielsa is in cult status with the fans so upset would have been big.Planwas to Marsch keeps the club in PL, fans see this as saviour and all will be happy. Radz makes a big buck and all life goes well. But seems that Marsch and board had no idea how over his head Marsch will get with relegation battle in most competitive league. T his team and players where elevated because of Bielsa. This was fatal flaw that board made. Usually there is pump somekind when manager change happens but not for us. The manager change was too rushed for us.

[Barlow Boy]

Call me crazy but I think Marsch was planned to swap Bielsa out already in long before it was needed. Was planned for summer, switch to American owner and American manager. Radz gets a good profit from selling huge club like us who are still in PL.

Roll in beginning of the year, board saw opportunity to do quick swap already mid season and blame bad results for this. This would eas down fans feelings if it would be done in summer for no other reason. Bielsa is in cult status with the fans so upset would have been big.Planwas to Marsch keeps the club in PL, fans see this as saviour and all will be happy. Radz makes a big buck and all life goes well. But seems that Marsch and board had no idea how over his head Marsch will get with relegation battle in most competitive league. T his team and players where elevated because of Bielsa. This was fatal flaw that board made. Usually there is pump somekind when manager change happens but not for us. The manager change was too rushed for us.

Spot on mate

[Selby White]

I watched Marsch last night, hands in his pockets, motionless, saying nothing, doing nothing, just literally stood there with his hands in his pockets. No wonder the players don’t have any idea what they are supposed to be doing, Marsch himself doesn’t.

Its one area I wont criticise him for as one of the most underestimated attributes that is often overlooked is how different players respond to different coaches. Not just football but all sports.
Coaches like players have their own style and it'll get the best out of some players but others may just drop back into their shell.

What we do know is our squad as many players that came from been Championship also rans, to Champions then to decent Prem players in 3 seasons.
That tells me Bielsa got the best out of these lads, they responded to his style.
Yes we were struggling but most of the season without or star striker, star midfielder & often our CB's who wouldn't struggle. We have our CB's & key midfielder back now and possibly our striker so I really feel we would have started to perform under Bielsa if the board hadn't panicked.

To me that is one of the biggest reasons I think the timing of the Marsch appointment was bad, we can judge him as a coach (and I still think the jury is out) once he's had the opportunity to bring a few of his own players in.
Sure some of the current squad will be fine its not an exact science but there will be others that wont perform to the same level under Marsch (it would possibly be the same in reverse).
Working with real people is different, some need shouting at, some need encouragement, some need leaving alone to do what they do.
Much easier playing Football Manager when everyone plays how we think they will.

As I say its the timing that was wrong should have been end of season if at all IMHO.

I still think we have a decent chance to stay up but can't afford anymore mistakes and everyone selected needs to be on their game.

[Selby White]

How does it look against the same teams if you want to compare.

If we should compare those 9 games with Marsch to the games against the same teams under Bielsa this season we will get:
Marsch 11 points against Leicester, Villa, Norwich, Wolves, Southampton, Watford, Palace, City and Arsenal.
Bielsa 12 points against the same.
Goal difference Marsch 10-14, goal difference Bielsa 10-18.
Bielsa had 5 home games, Marsch 4.

The remaining 3 games against Chelsea, Brighton and Brentford gave us 2 points and 4-5 in goal difference.
Marsch probably need to outscore Bielsa in these three to even hope staying up.

This comparison is not really relevant as it’s such a small number of games, and in football there are so many variables that should be taken into context. But the channel is called Bielsa v Marsch so it’s very much on topic atleast, even if it’s not useful as one is gone and the other is here. No matter how the head-2-head look.

10 games in against the same opposition:
(Leicester, Villa, Norwich, Wolves, Southampton, Watford, Palace, City, Arsenal, Chelsea)

Marsch 11 points, goal difference 10-17
Bielsa 12 points, goal difference 12-21

The remaining two fixtures against Brighton and Brentford gave us 2 points with Bielsa, goal difference 2-2.

Although it's only one point difference Bielsa didn't have Phillips or a number of CBs at his disposal for many games. If had suspect the points difference would be a little higher.

Not blaming Marsch though he was brought in at the wrong time and think his first 2 games (Villa & Leicester) is where we dropped points, thought at that stage they were both there for the taking.
Changing manager and style before two key games was not a great idea, the board need to explain that.

Marsch was clearly lined up for the job so if he was coming it made more sense to bring him in earlier before we played the big boys (MB's last 3 or 4 games).
It's a free hit against those teams so chance to try which players suit the system before key games.